Indoor Photography and Flash Suggestion

[hepcat]

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Even though Leica states clearly that their hotshoe can handle high voltage flashes, like an old Vivitar, there's no way I'd put that on my $6K Leica.

 

Gordon

 

Gordon, I've been using them for years on my M8 and now my M9P.  No harm, no foul.  The M bodies perform as described by Leica.

[tobey bilek]

I use my Nikon SB910 `s .    Put it in A mode,  plug into a Wein Safe sync in the hot shoe.  Nikon make a male to make chord to sync it up.   I like the flash on a Stroboframe Flip Flash bracket.   It bounces off walls and ceilings and does not leave harsh shadowsl  

you will need to manually set the camera to 1/50 or SLOWER ,  but Leica guys should know this.  Slower picks up nice ambient light,  but flash keeps the subject sharp.

 

Feel free to over pay for a Leica flash with half the features made by unknown manufacture (Metz) who declared bankruptcy. Or the chinese ones that last 2 months.

[IWC Doppel]

I suggest using 35mm or wider and getting more practice with handholding. I can easily get shots in very low light with my M9 at 1/8th 1/15th with a 35mm I rarely shoot above 640 with the M9

 

Having added an MM in the summer I am in awe at the opportunity in low light. Might be me but I rarely bother with colour production in the evening anyway unless it's with lenses like the Noctilux f1 which has incredibly colour density in low light.

 

I do like and use the thumbs up for holding, which helps a little

[ECohen]

I suggest using 35mm or wider and getting more practice with handholding. I can easily get shots in very low light with my M9 at 1/8th 1/15th with a 35mm I rarely shoot above 640 with the M9

 

Having added an MM in the summer I am in awe at the opportunity in low light. Might be me but I rarely bother with colour production in the evening anyway unless it's with lenses like the Noctilux f1 which has incredibly colour density in low light.

 

I do like and use the thumbs up for holding, which helps a little

 

Even if you master hand holding your camera at 1/8th and a 1/15th ..... if people/kids are moving about the scene faster than that......they are going to be blurry. 

If thats the intended effect, great. But if you want to identify/record who your shooting, your going to need to master the art of flash  photography too. 

 

You can still stop the action and make an artful photo .....If your at a family event....you really don't want to chance missing shots at an 1/8 or a 1/15.

 

 

This threat started with a suggested flash to capture an indoor celebration..........I'll add "Artfully"

[wda]

.... That's it Keep it simple or KISS ie Keep It Simple Stupid......

While I agree with your commendable solution to the use of modest flash equipment, you can hardly call it simple. While your setup may be ideal in your own home, would you take it to social events away from home or to exhibitions or museums where allowed? That is where an onboard tiltable flash unit which can swivel comes into its own.

 

I rarely use flash unless absolutely essential. By far my  most convenient onboard flash has been that which forms part of the venerable Digilux 2. It has one of the few inbuilt flashes which can bounce its limited output onto domestic walls ceilings or convenient light surfaces. But for many that solution is history. In its place I limit my off-camera flash operations to a tethered modest unit. The extra power transcends that given by the Digilux2. But in any mobile situation, if necessary, I would welcome a compact unit with movements which would remain in the hot-shoe. I know that is not a studio solution; but most members are not using a studio as a matter of regular non-professional photography.

[ECohen]

  Both very useful solutions.....given the choice Id prefer to pop a flash in a corner and wander........but as you say..... usually not and option... so plan B learn to adjust the flash on camera... Ahhhhh my kingdom for ISO a million with no noise, nice contrast and great color too.......it sure is easier than the 1980's and 400 speed films

[hepcat]

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 my brother has a canon flash as well - but that maybe too big for the M-P 240.. 

 

too big, how exactly?  My Sunpak 522 is a handle-mount flash with a bracket to which I attach my M9P...  I'm not sure I follow "too big for the M-P 240?"

[sunil]

Baffled:- A Leica user asking these basic ?'s --

 

http://digital-photography-school.com/5-tips-for-consistently-good-photos-indoors/

I've been a Leica user for 30 years and yes, these basic questions often remind me of much that I have forgotten. It reminds me of a great cricket batsman who when he got out often stated "I forgot the basics". True of every profession. 

[Peter Kilmister]

Paul, Thank you for sharing your expertise in this area ... and for posting some lovely examples of your work.

[wda]

Paul, thank you for some fine examples of your work. There is no doubt that wireless links have simplified connections and control. They barely existed when I used three Bowens units on location with attandant trailing power and sync leads. It is a different world today.

 

My comments were written from a different perspective to yours. Your set-up is fully justified for press and commercial work which your exemplary examples well illustrate. However I think the OP was seeking a solution to a slightly different problem, which is why I slanted my reply towards a single flash unit. Even that, off camera, gains by some degree of remote control.

[jto555]

Here is a link to a great video on using on-camera flash and bouncing it to look like a three light setup! 

 

https://fstoppers.com/lighting/how-create-3-light-setup-only-one-camera-flash-78171

 

The OP also asked about what flashes to use. I use a couple of Godox V850, (about £70 or $110) with a wireless transmitter ($30) and reciever ($16). The wireless is bullet-proof and does not do a full power dump when you fire it after just waking it. In two years for solid use, it has only missfired because of a dead battery. As for batteries, it takes its own 11v battery which gives it a recharge time of about 2 seconds on full power and lasts for about 650 full power flashes! Sometimes the Chinese copies are better than the real thing...   

[douglas fry]

I shoot with flash nearly every day for my corporate work and the mantra is easy

 

Aperture adjusts the flash

Shutter speed adjusts the ambient, up to the top sync speed

 

ONLY if you are shooting manually of course....

 

I use a Nikon SB28DX for party stuff, it has a manual only mode, I set it to 1/64 the minimum, this allows for more ambient light to show and then take a few test shots at the typical distance you shoot people at, 2 or 3 metres. If the flash looks too much adjust the aperture, if the background is black or too light adjust the shutter speed.

 

Its a very fast technique, I find that TTL means that the flash is reassessing the exposure on every shot so the results can be frustratingly variable...

 

I normally use Elinchrom Quadra Ranger with soft boxes but the principal is identical

[wda]

Douglas, thank you for your simple yet comprehensive explanation of how a professional works in the field with portable flash. The method can easily be adapted to family and home situations with less ambitious equipment..

[NickR]

An advantage to using a Leica dedicated flash with TTL rather than an off brand in A mode is that you can choose any aperture you wish.  I often shoot wide open with flash both for the look and to keep the background from appearing too dark compared to the the subject.

[NickR]

Nick not having a go but the previous few postings explain why MANUAL is often the way to go and you don't need a Leica dedicated flash. Douglas hit the nail on the head by his explanation :- Aperture adjusts the flash and Shutter Speed the ambient light.

 

True but the OP's original complaint was about movement with a slow shutter speed.  That was without any flash, of course, so I don't know if Douglas' method will work for him.  The TTL method will.

[douglas fry]

The method I (only) suggested btw will work under all circumstances, it has to, because all there is, is shutter speed and aperture (with ISO), TTL can't control any other variable. The trick is selecting the variable you need for any given scenario.

 

If the kids are in a dark room and you'd like to freeze their motion, then you will need a fast shutter with a pop of direct flash. A fast shutter will render the ambient as black, and then its the flash that freezes the motion. That will work but not that attractive

 

OR use flash as a replacement for the ambient and light the whole room with it, by bouncing it off the ceiling, that way the ambient is replaced by flash and again the motion will be frozen, the shutter is less relevant but not too slow as there will be a 'kids motion trail'

 

OR, probably the most satisfactory, beg the kids to be still for a moment while you photograph them with a slower shutter and a small pop of flash, to retain the ambient colour and atmosphere and put a bit of light onto their faces.

 

After a little practice its pretty straight forward. The only snag with this method is that it does require some forethought and a test shot or two to get the exposure as you'd wish, with TTL you could just charge in and start shooting, but the results are less predictable

[jto555]

True but the OP's original complaint was about movement with a slow shutter speed.  That was without any flash, of course, so I don't know if Douglas' method will work for him.  The TTL method will.

TTL is good if you are in a rush and do not have the time to set up your lights, it will get you close. I was shooting with a second photographer at a black tie event last night, so that meant men in black suits and women in bright dresses. With TTL I would get very different exposers between shots! However with manual flash we set our colour balance first, then shot manual flash for the night. Very consistent results, so other than a few global contrast adjustments and a colour tweak (to cool down the image) I could upload all the shots for my client at the end of the night. A MAJOR time saver when I am uploading a couple of hundred images. If I had to adjust each and every image I would be head butting the wall by now...  

 

If you are bouncing off a ceiling it is easy. The distance to the ceiling won't change and you tend to be about the same distance from you to your subject, so you can get constance results. 

[Echo63]

Nick not having a go but the previous few postings explain why MANUAL is often the way to go and you don't need a Leica dedicated flash. Douglas hit the nail on the head by his explanation :- Aperture adjusts the flash and Shutter Speed the ambient light.

Not quite true 

 

Aperture controls both flash and ambient.

Shutter speed controls only Ambient, until it gets to the max sync speed (then you start getting black lines across the top of the image)

 

 

if the flash is too bright, you can stop down a stop or two, (affecting both the flash and ambient) then drop the shutter speed to compensate for the ambient.

 

the first part of this http://strobist.blogspot.com.au/2006/03/lighting-101-balancing-flash-and.html explains it pretty well.

[Echo63]

An advantage to using a Leica dedicated flash with TTL rather than an off brand in A mode is that you can choose any aperture you wish.  I often shoot wide open with flash both for the look and to keep the background from appearing too dark compared to the the subject.

just looked at my Canon 580EX2 in "A" mode (old school thyristor controlled mode) and it will allow you to set an aperture down to f1

no worries shooting wide open, providing you can keep your shutter speed down below 1/180 (sync speed)

they have plenty of power, and can be picked up on eBay for 200-250 USD (make sure its a 580EX2 though)

 

unless you were talking about using high speed sync outside, in which case you need the dedicated leica flash unit.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[mmradman]

Bought Yongnuo RF-602/N from Amazon, received today and tested with Nikon SB-800 in manual mode, first with Nikon FE2 to see that it works and than with M240.  It works exactly as advertised, needs bit of chomping to get the exposure right but it takes seconds and than one better as transmitter is much easier to handle than SB-800 on top of M240.  For grand total of £22 - flash trigger plus postage probably best 22 quid spent of photo gadget, plus saves hundreds required to buy dedicated flash when excellent SB-800 bounced of the ceiling does the job so well.

 

Paul,  big thank you for excellent advice.  I may consider buying additional flash units and receivers and get solid flash system on the cheap.

Get a cheap Yongnuo RF602 transmitter and receiver. Put your flash on a light stand on manual mode - any flash will do. Personally I have a bag of early Nikon SB units cheap now as everyone wants digital specific ones. As long as it can be set to MANUAL repeat mantra MANUAL mode that's all you need just get the flash OFF THE CAMERA. With a Nikon SB and the camera at 400 ISO then usually about 1/4 power works fine with the camera set at 5.6 Point the flash up at the ceiling or some other neutral coloured wall. Exposure should be about right for BOUNCED flash but just chimp the screen if too light then close the aperture and if too dark open it up. That's it Keep it simple or KISS ie Keep It Simple Stupid.

 

As long as the light doesn't move then you can walk around and freely snap away and the exposure will be the same. Bouncing the light evens it up and gives more uniform shadows. If you want get a polystyrene cup and point the flash head straight up and put the cup over it to give a nice bare bulb effect.

 

You DON'T need TTL flash and you DON'T need Leica expensive flash.

 

For anybody wanting to learn flash then look at David Hobby STOBIST site - got everything you will ever need to know about flash lighting.

 

DON'T over complicate flash with guide numbers and TTL distances and all the other complicated rules. Just do it and CHIMP the screen!!

 

http://strobist.blogspot.co.uk/2006/03/lighting-101.html

 

Any repeat ANY photographer who wants to learn to light then this is ESSENTIAL - follow the free course and you will learn an amazing amount about flash and lighting.