Mornnb Posted November 8, 2015 Share #61 Posted November 8, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) As I understand it it comes practically "for free" with the functionality of the CMOS sensor. Yep, all you need is a sensor capable of reading frames at a lower resolution of around 30 frames a second, the same ability than makes the EVF and Liveview possible. The rest is just the CPU and software, you pipe it through an mpeg encoder. It will require a hardware mpeg encoder to do with efficiency, but this only requires adding a small part to the CPU die. Video is a feature that is too easy to implement to not include. Still, I dislike it being in my camera if only for the waste of an additional button. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 8, 2015 Posted November 8, 2015 Hi Mornnb, Take a look here New Leica M in September 2016? The speculations.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
semi-ambivalent Posted November 8, 2015 Share #62 Posted November 8, 2015 Video is a feature that is too easy to implement to not include. This is the rule for most electronic products as the cost of a specific digital capability moves down-market. What you often end up with is something like digital cameras with hundred page instruction booklets, or my Sony radio alarm clock that has 12 buttons. This is not to lump the M into this category, but to mention the lack of restraint some companies have. Perhaps if the M chassis becomes super modular digital Ms could attain something like the a la carte program. But I've always thought digital image capture technology, by its very nature, fights against the concept of 'craftsmanship' that is so much part of Leica's history. What could possibly be more ideal than a skilled workman gingerly filing a part to a perfect fit into a shutter assembly? Not ever having to file it, I would imagine. But many here on this forum certainly prefer the former and those cameras have lasted decades, even working better as they age. Digital is an entirely different game, and not many people seem to realize that, no matter the industry they're in. s-a Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share #63 Posted November 8, 2015 I'm not happy about the way Leica and some users seem to want to push the M into the role of traditionalist or even the mistakenly named "purist" camera. I feel the M either has a valid role as a contemporary MF camera that is bang up to date, or it should be dropped. I believe MF RF cameras have a valuable role in modern photography, but that role isn't as a historical or nostalgic curiosity. Of course the M's role isn't as a historical or nostalgic curiosity, but I hope you agree that the mechanical viewfinder isn't out of date. It's very clear and helps a lot with the visualisation of the subject. I am convinced, that visualisation starts in the mind and not in an electronic viewfinder. An M with only a " up to date " sensor should be enough for me. If I really liked looking " through the lens " I would never have bought a Leica M in the first place years ago, this had nothing to do with historical or nostalgic curiosity, allthough I cannot deny that emotion didn't play a part in it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joakim Posted November 8, 2015 Share #64 Posted November 8, 2015 As there are no video-specific components inside an iPhone (or an M for that matter), even Apple cannot shrink those. A CMOS sensor, a CPU, and a buffer, all sufficiently fast, are all you need for video – i.e. the same components you need for still photography anyway. I stand corrected but another question then is if video require a higher workload for those components meaning extra care has to be taken to remove heat and having larger batteries or does those factor also have a limited effect to what is required for still photography? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted November 8, 2015 Share #65 Posted November 8, 2015 I stand corrected but another question then is if video require a higher workload for those components meaning extra care has to be taken to remove heat and having larger batteries or does those factor also have a limited effect to what is required for still photography? Heat will always be an issue and a camera designed to better take care of the heat created by the sensor is a better camera in every respect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornnb Posted November 8, 2015 Share #66 Posted November 8, 2015 I stand corrected but another question then is if video require a higher workload for those components meaning extra care has to be taken to remove heat and having larger batteries or does those factor also have a limited effect to what is required for still photography? Heat will not be much more of an issue for video than it will be for live view and the EVF. You are still leaving the CPU running processing the incoming data, and leaving the sensor continually on. Hence, when you design the camera to handle the heat load from live view, you automatically get video as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornnb Posted November 8, 2015 Share #67 Posted November 8, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Perhaps if the M chassis becomes super modular digital Ms could attain something like the a la carte program. But I've always thought digital image capture technology, by its very nature, fights against the concept of 'craftsmanship' that is so much part of Leica's history. What could possibly be more ideal than a skilled workman gingerly filing a part to a perfect fit into a shutter assembly? Not ever having to file it, I would imagine. But many here on this forum certainly prefer the former and those cameras have lasted decades, even working better as they age. Digital is an entirely different game, and not many people seem to realize that, no matter the industry they're in. s-a This I completely disagree with. The technology is not any more disposable than a film camera is. I know from friends with a passion for computer technology that there is a real sense of preservation and passion for history. People will collect old computers from the 1980s, service them and keep them operating today. For the sake of preserving the great history of digital technology. Take a look at these sites here: http://www.digibarn.com http://www.vintage-computer.com/my_collection.shtml http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/computers/early-apple-computer-fetches-close-to-1m-at-auction-20141023-11an53.html The Leica M240 is a wonderful tool that takes great images, and this will not change with age. There is no reason one can't be kept shooting for 20 or 50 years. Digital technology does last this long. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
semi-ambivalent Posted November 9, 2015 Share #68 Posted November 9, 2015 This I completely disagree with. The technology is not any more disposable than a film camera is. I know from friends with a passion for computer technology that there is a real sense of preservation and passion for history. People will collect old computers from the 1980s, service them and keep them operating today. For the sake of preserving the great history of digital technology. Take a look at these sites here: http://www.digibarn.com http://www.vintage-computer.com/my_collection.shtml http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/computers/early-apple-computer-fetches-close-to-1m-at-auction-20141023-11an53.html The Leica M240 is a wonderful tool that takes great images, and this will not change with age. There is no reason one can't be kept shooting for 20 or 50 years. Digital technology does last this long. Mornnb, I get your points. I have a Compaq with a 486DX running FreeBSD-4.5 that can still ppp to a US Robotics modem. It runs great whenever I bother to plug it in (xeyes!) but I don't use it anymore and no company in their right mind would try to sell them. Computers have accumulated a lot more features but remain little more than what their software tells them they are. Calculator, phone, TV, stereo, ham radio, camera, checkbook, diary, keyboard, thermometer; they are almost nothing, and almost anything. In that regard I don't entirely agree with your analogy. (Non-phone) cameras are not almost anything. They're cameras. There's a closer limit to how much stuff you can add to drive sales. Perhaps that's why this movie button is the issue it is for many. I'm not speaking to the longevity of the M; I think it's a great camera and wouldn't be afraid to buy one if I was in the market for a digital Leica. My post was addressing the 'what is going to be added to the next M?' question. The Leica was born almost fully realized as its future self. What is there to add to an M7? Or an M-A? The digital Leica? Thanks, s-a Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roey Posted November 9, 2015 Share #69 Posted November 9, 2015 As I understand it it comes practically "for free" with the functionality of the CMOS sensor. No functionality comes for free. It might be the case that LV-capable sensors provide a data stream that lends itself to be captured as a video, but that in itself doesn't make a video feature. You still need to develop, test, debug, document the firmware that drives the hardware and manages the video UI as well potentially pay licensing fees for a video codec. Plus, the increased complexity of the firmware means that the development of other non-video features gets more expensive as well. If software development came for free we wouldn't have all the problems with firmware bugs, would we? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted November 9, 2015 Share #70 Posted November 9, 2015 I wish for a Mod to exert their super powers and change the thread name to something more accurate. What features do you wish for in a future M Camera? perhaps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 9, 2015 Share #71 Posted November 9, 2015 What title would you suggest? This thread goes in all directions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lm_user Posted November 9, 2015 Share #72 Posted November 9, 2015 I would like software for UV/IR color correction when selected from menu. Just like the M9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyalf Posted November 9, 2015 Share #73 Posted November 9, 2015 I wish for a more mudular M with a sensor + prosessor unit so that I can change only sensor every 3rd year. Anyone care to make a bet on this happeneing ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 9, 2015 Share #74 Posted November 9, 2015 Yep - Any sum that it won't happen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted November 9, 2015 Share #75 Posted November 9, 2015 No functionality comes for free. It might be the case that LV-capable sensors provide a data stream that lends itself to be captured as a video, but that in itself doesn't make a video feature. You still need to develop, test, debug, document the firmware that drives the hardware and manages the video UI as well potentially pay licensing fees for a video codec. Plus, the increased complexity of the firmware means that the development of other non-video features gets more expensive as well. If software development came for free we wouldn't have all the problems with firmware bugs, would we? Sure, the firmware required for video doesn’t come for free. But Leica needs to write this firmware anyway, for those who want video. They can develop a ‘pure’ variant of the M without video (and live view), but removing that functionality does also come at a cost, if only to make sure that what remains still works as expected. So while adding video comes at a cost, so does removing it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted November 9, 2015 Share #76 Posted November 9, 2015 I wish for a more mudular M with a sensor + prosessor unit so that I can change only sensor every 3rd year. Anyone care to make a bet on this happeneing ? Don’t bet on it; you are bound to lose your stake. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted November 9, 2015 Share #77 Posted November 9, 2015 I'll take the bet that it won't happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted November 9, 2015 Share #78 Posted November 9, 2015 What title would you suggest? This thread goes in all directions. Hi Jaap. Well I was being a little tongue in cheek (light hearted), but in my post I wrote that it might be more accurate if the title was "What features do you wish for in a future M Camera? " especially the "wish" part. Most of the threads of this nature go in all directions I think! People enjoy them I guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 9, 2015 Share #79 Posted November 9, 2015 Well, I added seven letters Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted November 10, 2015 Share #80 Posted November 10, 2015 I'd like to add to my list, toast. I really like toast. I'd like Leica to work on something that would provide a way the camera could make toast, I mean, really good toast. I'm sure everyone would agree that toast is good... never met anybody that didn't like toast, right? Rick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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