How to trigger image magnification by the right thumb?

[lct]

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No problem if you don't use focus magnification handheld of course. How do you focus your mirrorless camera(s) if i may ask?

[LocalHero1953]

IMO this is definitely an issue to await testing a real SL yourself before making a decision.

On the rare occasions I use the EVF on the M240, I often use focus magnification, backed up by focus peaking, though the latter is not very good and often disappears in poor light.

OTOH on my OMD EM-5ii, where I prefer MF to AF much of the time, I have switched off magnification because the EVF is so clear and the focus peaking works a dream in low light.

The SL's EVF may be good enough for you without magnification. But only testing will tell.

[IkarusJohn]

No problem if you don't use focus magnification handheld of course. How do you focus your mirrorless camera(s) if i may ask?

 

I don't have any.

 

With the NEX-5n, A7r and Leica T with M lenses I usually found magnification a bit slow (losing the framing and distracted from what was happening to the subject). So, I used magnification usually when the subject was static and exact focus was critical. I can't think of an occasion when I would want to be fast, magnifying and focusing at the same time (as opposed to pressing the magnification button then fine tuning the focus).

 

I'm not challenging your preference, LCT.  In fact, I have tried to understand the issue and look for ways to solve the problem. It's just not a deal breaker for me.

[stevelap]

I don't know, all this angst based upon reviews of early cameras with pre-production firmware.  I'm happy to wait to see what transpires in November before rushing to judgement.

 

(And before anyone asks, I don't have a mirrorless at the moment but have owned both OMD- EM1 and T).

[wlaidlaw]

Well, poor haptics (rubbish menu system and poor user interface, horrible to hold), slow (bad AF, black out in the EVF) and poor image quality with the M lenses I own. 

 

 

A rubbish menu system I can live with as long as it will ultimately do what you want. The Olympus EP-5 menu system with bits of it about 6 layers deep is horrible, compounded by a manual written by Professor Calculus of the Kyoto Chocolate Fireguard and Teapot Company and then computer translated into English on a Sinclair ZX81. However if you persist with it, you can in the end after a lot of sweat, actually achieve the set up you want. Bad ergonomics are more difficult to live with. The placement of the zoom button on the M240 being a perfect example. If I had not put a clear plastic stick on dome onto it, I would not be able to press it all all when using the MF grip.

 

I am more worried as to whether the slope to the top roller provides enough purchase for your right thumb to hold the camera. There does not look to be enough room to fit one of Steve's excellent "Thumbies" like I use on all my M's (4, 8, 9 and 240), so I can do one handed operation for overhead shots. 

 

Wilson

[thighslapper]

Having looked at the manual ........ the bottom Right button is set to bring up focus peaking when MF is activated ..... which to be honest is probably what Leica expect most to use as a focus aid rather than image magnification.

 

Image Mag and FP are in the Liveview Menu and this is not listed as available for 'Direct Access' .... but can be added to favourites..... but this would then need several button presses and is useless.

 

As said above, with only one AF lens available at release, unless Leica make using MF lenses easy and flexible there is going to be a lot of grumbling ..... or worse.

 

A different button configuration/menu option activated when non-af lenses are detected is not that complicated .......

[wlaidlaw]

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I would agree also having looked at the manual Magnification does seem to able to be changed from the BL button. The manual is not exactly fulsome in explaining button customisation but magnify does not seem to be a "favourite item" that can be assigned. I don't think it is a deal breaker for me but I hope that a half shutter push resets magnification to zero like it does on the M240 Live View. I think I could just about live with a BL button push or pushes and then shifting my left hand to focus an MF lens. On the other hand if you have to press the BL to get magnification and BR to get peaking each time you focus, that is getting a bit tedious. Being able to assign both magnification and peaking to TR with just one push activating both at a pre-set selected magnification would be much more sensible.

 

My experience in getting Leica to make even an alteration they agree makes sense and is doable, on a firmware update, is poor. 18 months ago they agreed they had made an error in changing the GPS data deletion period on the M240/MF Grip from 24 hours to five minutes and needed to change it to a more sensible 2 hours. Here we are 18 months later and it is still not done. Apparently they "forgot" in the July update.

 

Wilson

[digitalfx]

To be honest, this issue isn't big for me. The camera is designed first to be used with its native lenses, but a very close second with manual focus M and R lenses. I'm pretty relaxed about this.

 

 

 

LOL...yes all one of them.

 

Quite frankly if using M lenses requires two hands, this camera will be a major fail. The entire concept of the SL is the fact that it supports all Leica lenses. Since we will be waiting a year for a second lens its critical that this camera launches with proper ergonomics for manually focusing M lenses. That means, if we have to wait for a FW update to get this straightened out then Leica shipped this camera prematurely. I trust Leica understands that this isn't a trivial matter and that M lenses are critical to the success of the SL as a system. At launch.

[ramarren]

I'm buying the SL to use with my R lenses, exclusively or until they come up with an SL lens that I feel I must have... It will have to be something quite special since I have way more R lenses than I normally need! Oh, I'll use an M lens on it occasionally, but that's what I have the M-P for. :-) (I'll likely also use a Nikkor or two on it now and then, but that's very secondary to the reason for buying.)

 

Remapping the front button to focus magnification will work fine for me, but even the BL button is fine. I normally focus cameras with a good EVF without either focus mag or peaking. I figure I have done that with SLRs for 50 years, why stop now? The focusing aids are a nice additional help for when I'm doing more leisurely and more critical focus. 

[lct]

[...] Quite frankly if using M lenses requires two hands, this camera will be a major fail. The entire concept of the SL is the fact that it supports all Leica lenses. Since we will be waiting a year for a second lens its critical that this camera launches with proper ergonomics for manually focusing M lenses. That means, if we have to wait for a FW update to get this straightened out then Leica shipped this camera prematurely. I trust Leica understands that this isn't a trivial matter and that M lenses are critical to the success of the SL as a system. At launch.

 

I could not agree more. Leica will find a solution i believe but i had to postpone my order due to those (fill the empty case) buttons and i fear to be late in the queue now. The next M won't be launched in the meantime hopefully but if so, i could well think twice before ordering the SL... All the better for my wallet though...

[davewolfs]

As a potential buyer I too would like to see the ability to enable focus magnification on either the joystick or the front fn button. It's not mentioned but it appears there is no dial driven EVF control when in Aperture priority mode. This should also be fixed as it would be ideal to be able to change this via the shutter dial rather than having to dive into a menu. 

[screwmount]

Thank you John but those buttons are too far from the right thumb (at least mine) i'm afraid. I just need to trigger magnification whilst keeping my index finder on the shutter release and my left hand under the lens as usual with my other mirrorless cameras.

Can't you use your nose?

[thighslapper]

It is very difficult to make sense of this without actually using the camera and seeing how the button functions actually work........

 

As they are effectively computer keyboard keys I would have thought that in MF mode they could code the BR button that defaults to Peaking to change function if pressed for a longer period .... say 0.5 sec and cycle between Peaking and Magnification ..... but keeping the previously set function till a long keypress again changes it till the alternative. It would then have a dual function that could be changed at will and without need to rummage in a menu (for something that currently doesn't exist). 

 

Anyone at Wetzlar listening ????

[wlaidlaw]

 

 

Anyone at Wetzlar listening ????

 

 

 

From past experience - No. N.I.H. = Not Invented Here. 

 

Wilson

[algrove]

I sometimes wonder why we put up with what seems like N.I.H.behavior, Not in Head behavior. Somedays Sony looks like a viable alternative especially since 3 close Leica shooters just bought Sonys and love them once they programmed the soft keys the way they want. One other Leica shooter who now has Sony even says the Zeiss 25/2 AF lens has better corner sharpness than any Leica lenses he has used in the M and S systems. That's quite a statement.

 

PS-Forgot to mention these new Sony users decided to get them after the SL announcement.

[ramarren]

No problem if you don't use focus magnification handheld of course. How do you focus your mirrorless camera(s) if i may ask?

 

E-M1 - usually without aids. I will use magnification when I'm working with short focal lengths in some circumstances and none with longer focal lengths. Peaking I use quickly when in a hurry. Same for E-PL7 with VF-4.

 

M-P - with aids when working with 24, 90, or 135 lenses. I tend to use just the RF with 35, 50, and 75. 

 

D750 - Magnification depending on why I'm using Live View. Mostly with the 18mm. 

 

I figure i should be able be able to focus all of them without aids for average use, but having good tools available I might as well take advantage of them if/when they provide a benefit. 

[vikasmg]

...  Size and weight less of an issue in the sense that it goes with the territory - an AF IS 24-90 zoom was never going to be small. If you look at the R 28-90 it's big. Think back to the M(240) release with Jono using the R zoom with the new camera - they had a tripod collar on it, if I recall correctly.  ...

I don't have that lens but I do gave the less illustrious Vario Elmar R 28-70.  I pulled it out today to try it on my M240 and while quite heavy it was usable.  The SL's 24-90 is heavier but it does go further out at each end of the zoom, has f3.5 to f4.5 rather than f2.8 to f4, autofocus and IS.  I was very disappointed with the size of the lens at first but considering all that it doesn't sound too unreasonable.

 

- Vikas

[ynp]

Handled the SL yesterday at a dealer in Europe. Confirm that I was able to reach the right upper button with my right thumb while keeping the index finger on the shutter button. The front button is barely reachable , I was not able to reach it comfortably.

[lct]

Thank you ynp. Do you have large hands?

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[wlaidlaw]

Handled the SL yesterday at a dealer in Europe. Confirm that I was able to reach the right upper button with my right thumb while keeping the index finger on the shutter button. The front button is barely reachable , I was not able to reach it comfortably.

When you were using it and you did manage to reach the front button, what did it do? Do you think that adding a plastic "Bumpon" to the front button like many of us have done with the M240, would make it easier to reach?

 

The problem is to use manual focus with zoom and peaking, we need to reach the bottom left and right buttons, while holding with the right hand. Only then can one move one's left hand round to the front of the camera to focus. It is not clear from the somewhat ambiguously written manual, whether we can add these items to the "Favourites" list and then reassign them to other buttons and make a manual focus lens profile. I do wish someone from Leica was reading this thread and could tell us. I have read the manual through on this about four times and I am still no wiser. If you look at the menu page in the appendix neither zoom nor focus assist appear. They are only items on a sub menu from Live View, which can be assigned to Favourites and thus can be made to work with any button. What is not clear is whether we can then pre-assign Live View to open in a certain way, i.e. with focus assist on and pre-zoomed.