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Leica SL Survey - Your Opinion?


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What do you think about the new Leica SL?  

549 members have voted

  1. 1. Can you imagine to buy a Leica SL (Type 601)?

    • I want one!
      85
    • I'm interested but let's wait for detailed tests.
      61
    • I'm interested but will buy later when more lenses are available.
      40
    • No, the Leica SL is too expensive for me
      100
    • No, the Leica SL is too big and heavy for me
      126
    • Thanks no, not my camera at all
      137
  2. 2. Who will buy the Leica SL over the next years?

    • Professional photographers
      165
    • Video producers
      44
    • Leica R and M owners to adapt their lenses
      252
    • Leica fanatics who buy everything with a red dot
      253
    • Oligarchs looking for big and expensive gear
      96
    • No one - will become a flop
      57


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Right now the entire part of the internet that actually cares about this camera has formed an opinion: This is a Sony copy. Can Leica shake that impression after the camera is released into the wild? I don't think so.

 

Cheaper cameras copying range finder style sells: Fujifim. 

Cameras copying cheaper cameras and trying to sell at three times the price without a decent lens line up: um... dare I say Hasselblad? And how did it work out for them? 

 

What Leica has is their range finder style of shooting. They need to hold on to that, trying to expand market share with just a "me too" against the bigger competition who can dish out cheaper more tech advanced "gadgets" much more quickly isn't going to work.

 

They should've focused on how to make the current M thinner and lighter, I would've been drooling for one if this is what they release but oh well, we can always hope right? 

 

 

But why shouldn't Leica address the mirrorless market with a new FF camera? They have the technology to produce telephoto zoom lenses which are deserving of a FF non-rangefinder mirrorless platform. There would be no sense whatsoever in producing such lenses for an M camera with its now obsolete EVF and relatively poor definition live view … not to mention the poor ergonomics of attaching a heavy zoom to an M camera. 

 

There's no likelihood of the M series not being developed further. Leica has a new and expanding factory in Wetzlar plus the Portuguese plant so it has the capacity to develop new products and improve existing rangefinder cameras. Leica does not have to rely solely on the M market for its professional and high-end camera sales; they did not build a new factory just to keep the M series in production. 

 

As for the allegation that the SL is a Sony copy … that is a very ill-considered remark. Look back into the history of e.g. the SLR camera … initially they all looked similar and continued to look similar for many years … they all had a pentaprism and a mirror box. Nowadays the thinner mirrorless cameras nearly all have a built in grip - but that does not mean that Leica has copied Sony.  Leica had a design philosophy behind the SL;  it's documented for anyone to investigate and learn about. 

 

dunk

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I'm torn.

 

As an enthusiast I don't need this camera. As a working photographer I need to have a viewfinder and flash shoe at the same time. But I don't need this camera.

 

The enthusiast side of me will just keep using his M's. For me they're the goldilocks camera. Just right. I do have a Sony A7R2 for landscapes and it's spectacular but I don't need it for day to day shooting. When I need zooms or AF I shoot with my small Fuji kit. And it now looks like the XPro2 is close.

 

The working side of me likes the idea of the SL but doesn't *need* it. I have both a Sony A72 and a99 and a range of really fabulous Ziess AF lenses. My Sony's do just fine with my M lenses because I don't actually own most of the problem ones. The WATE and MATE are good on the A7II as are the teles. The only three "problem" lenses I own are a 50 'lux, 28 ''cron and 24 ASPH. Two of those I don't need an EVF for. I use them on the M with flash. The 24 I can guess and I don't use it often anyway. Anyway I already have the 55mm Sony and it's truely wonderful. The a99 is the Sony version of the SL. Top LCD, 24MP, EVF, dual slots and GPS. It's also a mature system, with brilliant lenses and an ergonomically wonderful camera. Too many buttons though. It didn't do well for Sony but it's truely great if given a fair chance. A bit ahead of it's time I suspect.

 

On the other hand, the SL isn't as big or ugly as some photos make out. Kristian Dowling has some great images of the size of the camera. Plus with a flash on top the A7II is a bit too small. The SL looks just right. I already have the grip on my M for flash use. I really, really like the 24-90 idea. 24-70's are too short. I've got a few and don't like any of them. I did like my Canon 24-105 and use that over the 24-70 even though the 24-105 is optically so so. I could see myself with the two zooms for when I need them and primes for when I need speed. I don't need fast zooms. I've got a Noctilux. The 90-280 is also a range that appeals. I've shot a 70-200 on a crop body and loved the range. I have a 70-400 now that I use for this exact reason.

 

The SL would get me to a single system. One brand. One set of flashes to carry. One look to the files (within the system limitations of course). I don't need masses of gear. If the three lenses were all available now I'd be in for sure. It'd be nice to just have a bag of M primes that I can use on my M when I don't need the hotshoe and the SL when I do, plus a couple of zooms for when I need AF or the reach. Right now I usually carry two systems for many jobs. The M and something else. That can mean four bodies and up to 6 hotshoe flashes. I could loose a body, four flashes and 3-4 lenses instantly.

 

The introduction of the SF40 also means I now will have a better on camera flash solution for the M, rather than the unwieldy SF58's I use now. Even less need for an SL. I already have a full Sony system with ALL of the SL features and a comprehensive lens system.

 

I'll have a look. Lust might just get the better of me. But it'll be hard to let go of the 85 and 135 Sony/Zeiss lenses.

 

Gordon

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Whatever you may think of the SL as a camera, no pro is going to buy it until there is a range of pro spec lenses to use with it.

 

We're at least a year from that point, most likely 2 years.

 

Maybe the SL2 will do better.

 

James, to say that, "no pro is going to buy it until there is a range of pro spec lenses to use with it" is pure conjecture. Some professionals, and maybe more than just some, definitely WILL buy it … and dealers worldwide probably already have orders from both professionals and non-professionals.

 

dunk 

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James, to say that, "no pro is going to buy it until there is a range of pro spec lenses to use with it" is pure conjecture. Some professionals, and maybe more than just some, definitely WILL buy it … and dealers worldwide probably already have orders from both professionals and non-professionals.

 

dunk

Ok Dunk, can you name any names? That's working pros who have bought into the SL 'system' ?

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To me just another boring digital camera.  Here today, obsolete tomorrow. 

 

I'll take my R6.2 with its Elmarit R 19mm and a roll of Delta 400 any day. 

 

I would love to see a Leica quality 645 with a 45mm lens.  I would gladly pay whatever they want.

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This is the camera I was expecting Leica to offer. That thought was the motivation for me to start acquiring R lenses a couple of years ago while prices were still bouncing off the bottom of the dump. AF is nice but not essential, a solid body with R lens optimizations is what I was hoping for. 

 

I've now carefully acquired a dozen excellent lenses for a price that totals less than the cost of a Q, from 19mm to 250mm. Once the SL arrives, I'm ready to roll. In the meantime, the Leicaflex SL and R8 are working just fine... :-)

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Ok Dunk, can you name any names? That's working pros who have bought into the SL 'system' ?

 

I trust Sean Reid’s and Michael Reichman’s considered judgements and opinions

 
 
 
dunk
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I'm one professional who shoots architecture (30yrs plus) that uses exclusivly Leica S , M and T, and with an existing arsenal of Leica lenses, soon an SL. Really I'm dumbfounded by some of the opinions and assumptions mentioned here about working pros.

Edited by rsmphoto
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I'm not a working pro, and I've heard enough differences of opinion among those I've met that I would not generalize as to what they will or won't buy.  Speaking only for myself, I am not interested in the SL.  I have been happy shooting M cameras for over 4 decades, the M240 suits every need I have.  I am very happy Leica decided to produce a completely different system to please the folks who want a mirrorless/EVF camera with AF and zooms, rather than take the M system farther from its roots.  For the occasional use I have for AF zooms, my Canon's will suffice. 

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I wanted to vote it is too big, heavy and expensive but am allowed to choose only one option. Who will buy it? Well that's the 64 dollar question. I've used Leicas for many years because of the size, relatively small bodies and tiny lenses. The SL is the antithesis of this. But it contains the technology that the present and future is demanding. I hope and probably suspect it will sell well but it's not for me. What could wean me from the M's is an interchangeable lens Q.

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Too big compared to R4/R7 bodies yes but compared to the R9 no. There is little point in using small bodies with bulky lenses anyway.

 

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I wanted to vote it is too big, heavy and expensive but am allowed to choose only one option. Who will buy it? Well that's the 64 dollar question. I've used Leicas for many years because of the size, relatively small bodies and tiny lenses. The SL is the antithesis of this. But it contains the technology that the present and future is demanding. I hope and probably suspect it will sell well but it's not for me. What could wean me from the M's is an interchangeable lens Q.

 

Leica M cameras.

 

There's nothing small about the R8/9 or S bodies and their lenses are far from "tiny".  The biggest problem I have with the comments here about this camera is that it is dominated by M camera users who seem to think this was the next M.  The only thing it really has in common is the 35mm format, and the ability to take M & R lenses with adapters.

 

It would be better to look at this from the perspective of a new camera with new lenses (and the ability to use others, granted).  In common with dSLRs, the AF IS zoom lenses are huge, particularly coming from an M, but then they're smaller than S lenses, and they serve a different purposes.

 

Leica didn't make them big by accident, or because no one noticed ... it goes with the territory.  If you want small, the M system is your territory, not the SL or S.

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It's a massive gamble for Leica. Canikon's continuing neglect of full frame professional mirrorless systems has provided an opportunity for Leica with Sony presenting the only serious competition. But to enter this field Leica has to persuade consumers and professionals that its system is so superior that it's worth abandoning their Canikon DSLRs and their investment in glass or paying half as much for a Sony system that is pretty impressive and much cheaper. And it feels like 2016 will be the year that Canikon enters the full frame mirrorless market. That's a giant gamble. Because the traditional high end Leica RF lover like me may not want this system which eschews the rangefinder for a camera that is by no means unique. As for the video capabilities, as a professional filmmaker it has very little to offer in comparison to, say, the new Canon 300 Mk2. From what I've seen I don't think this expensive and physically big system will succeed no matter how great the technology is. Whither Leica? The T seems increasingly like a design exercise at best and a novelty item at worst. The Q is an interesting cool two steps forward. The SL looks to be one step back. It's great to see all this risk taking and innovation from Leica which seemed asleep for so many years. But for my money I really hope that Leica puts that wonderful EVF into the next M.

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I would never buy this camera. I handled it at PhotoPlus in NYC yesterday.

It's too big, too heavy, and too expensive for me.

The number of full-frame affordable autofocus lenses is very small.

Those lenses are also big, heavy and expensive.

I don't see a market for this camera. 

Sports photographers need telephoto zooms and primes with a 2.8 maximum aperture.

Wedding and event photographers aren't going to spend $25,000 for a camera body, three lenses and a flash.

I can't see a market for the SL.

What market research did Leica conduct which prompted them to build this behemoth?

Leica has had their best successes designing small, compact cameras which were capable of yielding superb photographs.

The SL does not follow that winning formula.

 

We had some days to discuss the Leica SL and to form an opinion.

To get an atmospheric picture here are two questions to you_
 
1. Can you imagine to buy a Leica SL (Type 601)?
 
And:
 
2. Who will buy the Leica SL over the next years?
 
Please vote above and share your voice below...

Edited by kkdanamatt
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