IkarusJohn Posted October 10, 2015 Share #1 Posted October 10, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Okay, the last topic spun out of control, first talking about the SL, then something completely different. With the new 35mm system, surely we will see an iterative development of the M(240), rather than revolutionary like the shift from M9 to M(240). First, what we won't see: Hybrid or some electronic viewfinder. The M optical viewfinder was refined in the last version of the camera, and I'd see Leica stick with it AF Video - I think this will go to differentiate the new system. There is a disconnect with video and stills, where video benefits from fewer, larger pixels and greater dynamic range and ISO performance, and stills photographers want a higher pixel count. To do well, video would cost stills performance What will be new: new EVF new processor new sensor, with better dynamic range and ISO performance better start up user programmable buttons Others? I'd like to see more information through the viewfinder, eg number of stops EC. The Edition 60 flashes up the battery percentage on start-up and images remaining on the SD card after each shot, which I find useful - this could be programmable. Most here seem to love their M(240) cameras, so I'd expect the next iteration to just address some issues, and cement the M camera as a manual camera based around the optical viewfinder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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FrozenInTime Posted October 10, 2015 Share #2 Posted October 10, 2015 Video - I think this will go to differentiate the new system. There is a disconnect with video and stills, where video benefits from fewer, larger pixels and greater dynamic range and ISO performance, where stills photographers want a higher pixel count. To do well, video would cost stills performance I'm convinced a 3rd variant in the M line would be well received : a high ISO optimized RF body with fewer, larger pixels and high dynamic range. (no desire for video ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted October 10, 2015 Share #3 Posted October 10, 2015 I have no idea.... But if I were in charge. 2 new M bodies. A classic M rangefinder and an EVF M. Classic M a bit thinner. EVF version could be a bit smaller and lighter with a tilty rear screen. 36MP with an 18MP SRAW function. Off centre focus for EVF. New future proof processor rather than a hand me down. Improved High ISO. Picture in picture focus for EVF ala Fujifilm XT-1. New top tier EVF add on for Classic M ala T system. With GPS and decent firmware. Shutter speed in the viewfinder in manual mode. Adjustable RF frame brightness. A new compact tilty swivel flash. Guide number 40 ala Nissin i40. Off camera capabilities with TTL ratios. Happy as a pig in poop if I get this. Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted October 10, 2015 Share #4 Posted October 10, 2015 seriously ?? we've had enough of these threads its going to go pear shaped like all the others ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbuckley Posted October 11, 2015 Share #5 Posted October 11, 2015 I support this thread as a way of weaning us from the "New M This Year" thread that went so off track, entertaingly for a while, then rather less so. I think John's predictions are more or less right, from the simple fact that it seems the M has become Leica Classic while much of the company's energies surely have gone into producing the SL and Q. You know, there are people at Apple still working on the iPod. I don't think the M has become outdated within the Leica executive corps -- there are too many of us with capital invested in M lenses, the rangefinder still the brand's defining product. But I don't expect anything revolutionary out of the next M, because the revolution is the Q, the SL. And you know what? I don't care. Just fix the M-240's relatively few problems, keep it as Leica Classic, update it every three (?) years, give us a Monochrom variant, and I'll keep it as the main platform to which I commit. I am, admittedly, tempted by a Q, tempted by what I think the SL likely will be. But I'm committed to the M, and will keep buying new ones so long as they retain their essence. Which I expect the next one will, whether it is announced in 2015 or not til next year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted October 11, 2015 Share #6 Posted October 11, 2015 --Hope they will lighten the body top cap since it does need to be of heavy metal in this day and age. Not too light though since it could feel cheap if too light. --Better clip-on EVF --S internals a la Q since it is super fast and with no noticable black out lag. --Same M battery, but battery/SD bay door like on Q. Wisely done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
freitz Posted October 11, 2015 Share #7 Posted October 11, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) like the predictions but all the new talk about a new M has died with the SL rumors. I hope they do launch a new M soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted October 11, 2015 Share #8 Posted October 11, 2015 There is a disconnect with video and stills, where video benefits from fewer, larger pixels and greater dynamic range and ISO performance, and stills photographers want a higher pixel count. To do well, video would cost stills performance The Edition 60 flashes up the battery percentage on start-up and images remaining on the SD card after each shot, which I find useful - this could be programmable. I'm a stills photographer and don't need more pixels. I'd rather have larger ones, if the body and lenses didn't grow. Nor would I have any interest in constant reminders on SD card count or battery life, when I barely need to check them on the M in an entire day as it is, and have never run out of either on any given shoot. Intrusive flashes all day long, hundreds of times?...no thanks. Programmability is fine.... I essentially do that with the M with LV and video....they're programmed out. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo63 Posted October 11, 2015 Share #9 Posted October 11, 2015 I'm convinced a 3rd variant in the M line would be well received : a high ISO optimized RF body with fewer, larger pixels and high dynamic range. (no desire for video ) something like the A7S ? lower MP but better ISO performance and DR ? I like the croppability of the current M's 24mp, but a high ISO/high DR version would be very nice. What will be new: new EVF new processor new sensor, with better dynamic range and ISO performance better start up user programmable buttons Others? I'd like to see more information through the viewfinder, eg number of stops EC. The Edition 60 flashes up the battery percentage on start-up and images remaining on the SD card after each shot, which I find useful - this could be programmable. Most here seem to love their M(240) cameras, so I'd expect the next iteration to just address some issues, and cement the M camera as a manual camera based around the optical viewfinder. I love the RF, but sometimes an EVF is the correct choice - a new EVF would be great, something like the Visoflex for the T. I would love to see a PC socket added to the camera too (even a nice small weather resistant LEMO connecter and a short pigtail with a PC or 3.5mm socket on the end) to enable using flash with the EVF without having to buy a ridiculously priced grip. More info in the VF would be nice, an option to have the white framelines turn red when you dip below 1/focal length as a shutter speed warning would be great too as for Programmable buttons, the ability to program the M and front buttons with other functions would be nice. Off centre focus for EVF. New future proof processor rather than a hand me down. Improved High ISO. Picture in picture focus for EVF ala Fujifilm XT-1. New top tier EVF add on for Classic M ala T system. With GPS and decent firmware. Shutter speed in the viewfinder in manual mode. Adjustable RF frame brightness. A new compact tilty swivel flash. Guide number 40 ala Nissin i40. Off camera capabilities with TTL ratios. Happy as a pig in poop if I get this. Gordon Yep, i would be happy with these options too - even a little flash like the fuji EF-X20 with tilt/swivel ability, running of a single CR123 would do me nicely, just for a bit of fill - the ability to use it off camera would be great too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted October 11, 2015 Share #10 Posted October 11, 2015 Will the new M have a digital rangefinder or retain the current optical one as is? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted October 11, 2015 Author Share #11 Posted October 11, 2015 Will the new M have a digital rangefinder or retain the current optical one as is? My expectation is it will stay optical. Only a separate EVF. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted October 11, 2015 Share #12 Posted October 11, 2015 I agree with most of your predections, IkarusJohn, except the programmable buttons. Apart from my own dislike of too many buttons & dials, I think they would run against das Wesentlich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rramesh Posted October 11, 2015 Share #13 Posted October 11, 2015 I do believe, the only new M you will see this year, will be in early November in a theatre near you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
guybrush Posted October 11, 2015 Share #14 Posted October 11, 2015 I would like to have on a new regular M (not the Monochrome or MP or special edition): GPS-tracking (without external devices like the handgrip): In my opinion a must for a new camera in this price-range. To know, where a picture has been taken is a very useful information. I always add this info afterwards in lightroom, which takes la long time! remote funcion via WLAN or bluetooth, with a cellular phone: I often take pictures from me + my family or friends. I'm always jealous when looking how others take such pictures. Or at least: self-timer with adjustable times and and opportunity to take several pictures iphone-like touchscreen: in addition to the usage of the buttons reduced dimensions: back to the M6 in regards of thickness and weight faster start-up and shooting-frequency Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reiep Posted October 11, 2015 Share #15 Posted October 11, 2015 My expectation is it will stay optical. Only a separate EVF. Why not an hybrid like on the Fuji X100T? It can be optical, electronic... or both. And everyone's happy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted October 11, 2015 Share #16 Posted October 11, 2015 I believe it will more Q like than Fuji like. As for all of us that's just a guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted October 11, 2015 Share #17 Posted October 11, 2015 Why not an hybrid like on the Fuji X100T? It can be optical, electronic... or both. And everyone's happy Fuji’s hybrid viewfinder isn’t a rangefinder. Combining a rangefinder with an electronic viewfinder appears attractive, but actually implementing the concept would be difficult. In the end it might turn out not to be all that practical. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted October 11, 2015 Share #18 Posted October 11, 2015 Given recent experience the only things that will make me move on from the 240 are: Improved performance with EVF (I've gone back to the Frankenfinder if I want to shoot with the 21 or 18 - shutter delays are just unacceptable for reportage) movable focus point in LV / EVF These two alone would be enough to make me consider trading up. Other improvement in high ISO etc are marginal for me (maybe with the exception of improved long exposure options). I don't want a touch screen ever, and if I need burst mode, AF, or any other DSLR features I use one of my Canon 5 Series cameras ... And I think this thread is (sort of) useful.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Warwick Posted October 11, 2015 Share #19 Posted October 11, 2015 Why not an hybrid like on the Fuji X100T? It can be optical, electronic... or both. And everyone's happy The M240's optical rangefinder was apparently "amended" vs prior versions - it now seems more accurate, higher contrast and less likely to drift. Given Leica bothered to do that (presumably with R&D and other expenses?) I've always assumed they're trying to future proof and perfect the M's optical rangefinder - this seems in conflict with a notion of a hybrid in the queue. My best guess is the M will remain a traditional optical rangefinder, whereas a camera with an electronic viewfinder will be the role of things like the new mystery SL ...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted October 11, 2015 Share #20 Posted October 11, 2015 Given recent experience the only things that will make me move on from the 240 are: Improved performance with EVF (I've gone back to the Frankenfinder if I want to shoot with the 21 or 18 - shutter delays are just unacceptable for reportage) Maybe I'm way off, but intuitively I'm thinking the lag delay is due at least in part to the open-close-open shutter sequence and that the only way to shorten it radically would be to eliminate the physical focal plane shutter in favor of an electronic one (and perhaps an FP "gate" if you will, that only opens/closes when changing lenses? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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