forestlander Posted October 7, 2015 Share #1 Posted October 7, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello, I purchased recently a second-hand Leica MP and I noticed that the lenses I mounted on it are playing a bit (wiggle). 35mm lens is playing a bit more than the 75 one. So the lenses doesnt fix very tight. Have you experienced that? It is normal? Or should I send it to service? I would appreciate your answers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 7, 2015 Posted October 7, 2015 Hi forestlander, Take a look here Leica MP wiggle. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
250swb Posted October 7, 2015 Share #2 Posted October 7, 2015 It's normal, as long as the lens is locked any small movement isn't a problem. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock Posted October 7, 2015 Share #3 Posted October 7, 2015 It's normal, as long as the lens is locked any small movement isn't a problem. Steve Realy? I have no "wiggle" on any of my Leica M Bodies, both new and second hand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted October 7, 2015 Share #4 Posted October 7, 2015 Realy? I have no "wiggle" on any of my Leica M Bodies, both new and second hand. Congratulations! Or try harder! For the record the current number of camera's I can detect a very small amount of movement by twisting a locked lens against the body is M246, M4-P, M2, MP, and an M6. And I can't think of any that I've had previously that a tiny bit of movement can't be detected. It is so the locating pin in the lens can fall into the rebate on the mounting ring, a perfect fit would cause all sorts of problems. And what can it affect if there is a small amount of 'wiggle' on a film body? Nothing at all is the answer. I mean, if it was so bad it changed the framelines while the lens was still locked in place you'd have a problem, but has anybody actually heard of that impossibility happening? Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock Posted October 7, 2015 Share #5 Posted October 7, 2015 Congratulations! Or try harder! For the record the current number of camera's I can detect a very small amount of movement by twisting a locked lens against the body is M246, M4-P, M2, MP, and an M6. And I can't think of any that I've had previously that a tiny bit of movement can't be detected. It is so the locating pin in the lens can fall into the rebate on the mounting ring, a perfect fit would cause all sorts of problems. And what can it affect if there is a small amount of 'wiggle' on a film body? Nothing at all is the answer. I mean, if it was so bad it changed the framelines while the lens was still locked in place you'd have a problem, but has anybody actually heard of that impossibility happening? Steve It rather depends on what you mean by a "tiny bit of movement". If you have a noticeable wiggle you have a problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted October 7, 2015 Share #6 Posted October 7, 2015 Isn't any kind of movement "noticeable"? Otherwise it wouldn't be movement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted October 7, 2015 Share #7 Posted October 7, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Twisting play isn't an issue, just tolerances on the locking parts, but a rocking wiggle where an edge lifts from the flange surface would be bad. I have an old Exakta (before the added tension springs to the bayonet) that does that, which is why in the LTM days Leica criticized bayonet mount as sloppy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock Posted October 7, 2015 Share #8 Posted October 7, 2015 The OP said "So the lenses doesnt fix very tight." That is why I used the word noticeable. Also the fact that the 35mm lens is "playing" more than the 75mm is interesting as a longer lens would normally be more prone to movement than a shorter lens (physical length not focal length). As TomB_tx said, is it twisting or rocking movement? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forestlander Posted October 7, 2015 Author Share #9 Posted October 7, 2015 Hello, Thank you very much for your answers. I think it is twisting, I mean is not very noticeable, but it is. Also it has a mall sound, like clink. On my M9 doesnt happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted October 7, 2015 Share #10 Posted October 7, 2015 It rather depends on what you mean by a "tiny bit of movement". If you have a noticeable wiggle you have a problem. Well it was noticed, but why is it a problem? It doesn't affect focusing, it doesn't mean the lens is going to fall off, what is the problem? As lenses and the body flange wear from new to worn-in the amount of wiggle (twist) will be different for each lens and body combination as they individually age. Having no tolerance at all means it would be a tight interference fit and guaranteed to wear even faster. The pin in the lens and rebate on the flange are simple stops, so long as it can't go one way or the other too much it's doing its job as designed. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock Posted October 7, 2015 Share #11 Posted October 7, 2015 Well it was noticed, but why is it a problem? It doesn't affect focusing, it doesn't mean the lens is going to fall off, what is the problem? As lenses and the body flange wear from new to worn-in the amount of wiggle (twist) will be different for each lens and body combination as they individually age. Having no tolerance at all means it would be a tight interference fit and guaranteed to wear even faster. The pin in the lens and rebate on the flange are simple stops, so long as it can't go one way or the other too much it's doing its job as designed. Steve I think the OP's last post seems to indicate that it is not a major problem. I am, however, interested in your last comment regarding the pin in the lens and the rebate in the flange. All my Leicas have the pin in the flange and the rebate in the lens, but I think I know what you mean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarav Posted October 7, 2015 Share #12 Posted October 7, 2015 all digital M bodies I have do twist a little bit (a portion of a mm.). The two brand new MP of mine have a bigger movement (equal with all lenses and....two portion of a mm. ). So I think it's normal. don't be scared. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith (M) Posted October 7, 2015 Share #13 Posted October 7, 2015 Hello, Thank you very much for your answers. I think it is twisting, I mean is not very noticeable, but it is. Also it has a mall sound, like clink. On my M9 doesnt happen. The M9 was my first Leica and the fit of lenses was very snug indeed (requiring three Weetabix for breakfast!). Subsequently I bought a new M7 and was disconcerted by the apparent looseness of the fit of the lens, akin to a 'knife through butter' as opposed to the heave and grunt required on the M9. As the M7 had to be returned due to complete electronic failure, I also mentioned the apparent slackness of the bayonet mechanism but was informed it was 'to spec'. The MP ALC I bought later is somewhere between the two... In essence, if your M7 has a slight rotational movement, I would not worry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth3kpl Posted October 8, 2015 Share #14 Posted October 8, 2015 My 35/1.4FLE rotates enough to change the frame lines on one of my MPs but not the other. All my other lenses fit snugly. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indergaard Posted October 8, 2015 Share #15 Posted October 8, 2015 My 35/1.4FLE rotates enough to change the frame lines on one of my MPs but not the other. All my other lenses fit snugly. Pete I'm experiencing more noticeable rotation with my 35/1.4FLE on my MP too. Ther other lenses I've tried on the MP fits snugly (50 Lux ASPH, 90 Elmarit-M, 90 Tele-Elmarit, Zeiss 35mm ZM). Maybe it's got something to do with the lens. Oddly enough the 35/1.4FLE fits snugly on the M240, and so does all the other lenses... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forestlander Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share #16 Posted October 8, 2015 I'm experiencing more noticeable rotation with my 35/1.4FLE on my MP too. Ther other lenses I've tried on the MP fits snugly (50 Lux ASPH, 90 Elmarit-M, 90 Tele-Elmarit, Zeiss 35mm ZM). Maybe it's got something to do with the lens. Oddly enough the 35/1.4FLE fits snugly on the M240, and so does all the other lenses... This is exactly what it happens with my 35/1.4 FLE. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePioneer Posted October 8, 2015 Share #17 Posted October 8, 2015 Lens lock onto my MA easily but snugly. I don't notice any movement to speak of and if I try to force movement rotationally or laterally I get more visible movement from the various lens component than from any mount movement. As for blithely stating that movement is "normal" based on a description on an internet post...I am a bit confused how that can actually be done. Using the criteria that the lens hasn't unlatched and your photos seem fine is a bit excessive. By the time you notice those kinds of effects I would think that you would be far beyond the maximum limits allowed by the manufacturer. I think the best advice is, if the movement seems excessive to you, then have it checked. A technician can measure the movement and tell you specifically whether or not if it is within spec or if it needs adjustment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted October 8, 2015 Share #18 Posted October 8, 2015 As for blithely stating that movement is "normal" based on a description on an internet post...I am a bit confused how that can actually be done. Well let's look at this. First we have one persons 'snug' is another persons 'loose', so the judgement is already skewed. Then we have each lens having a slightly different tolerance based on wear. The we have the lug on the body's lens flange being a different design on digital and film M bodies. The lug on the body flange of a film camera has up and down movement, it rocks about a fraction up and down on every film body from the M3 to the MP. The digital M bodies are a tighter tolerance because the 'lug' is now a pin, and it doesn't rock up and down, but in order for the lens to snap into place there still has to be some leeway, so 'some' movement can still be detected because the lens rebate is a micron bigger than the lug or pin and will get enlarged with age. Let's say it again, if there was no tolerance you wouldn't get your lens to fit on the body with any degree of certainty. It should just snap into place, but on LUF we do have previous questions about lenses not snapping in, and often it is another manufacturers lens that hasn't been finished to the same degree and the machineing of the lens flange has left swarf on the edge of the lens rebate. So tight and loose are irrelevant concepts if the lens fits and locks. But if it is so far out of tolerance that the framelines change by twisting the lens then it is more than likely a lens flange problem rather than a body flange problem. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted October 22, 2015 Share #19 Posted October 22, 2015 Just received my a la carte MP and 35mm Summilux and there is noticeable movement between the two. In fact if you shake the camera gently the lens rattles. There is very slight movement with my 28mm and 50mm 'crons, but it's probably 1/3 of the 35mm. I know it won't make any practical difference but it doesn't feel right for such an expensive lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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