From M4 to......?

[ReturningToFilm]

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Dear Film experts

You have probably gleaned from various posts that I have an M4 and now a 35mm Cron Asph....and I'm very happy....but and this might be an element of GAS...but I'm prepared to save up (I don't have a huge disposable income) over the next year to get an M with an in built meter, that's newer and therefore perhaps will be in better shape to hand on to one of the kids. I don't want to sell the M4. This is with a view to a second M body. I'll worry about the glass later!

 

So on to the question - bought new both the M7 and MP are the same price; I'm talking plain Jane, not a la carte. Why new? To ensure the MP finder on M7. To get Leica engraving on top plate on the MP. Simplicity with the MP, auto with the M7. Which would you chose and why?

 

Regards

Paul

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[earleygallery]

Will your kids want a film Leica?

 

The meter works like a fat spot meter, honestly I'd stick with what you have and buy a good light meter if you don't already have one.

 

However, if I had to choose between an MP or M7, I'd go for the MA

[ReturningToFilm]

Lol that actually made me laugh out loud. You are probably right- a romantic notion that they may simply go "meh" to. Just because I like fountain pens, paper, badger brushes and DE razors doesn't mean they will. Probably iPhone10, Instagram 3.0 will be more their style.... Still like the comment about simply getting a good handheld meter...more scope for lenses that way I suppose!

So that being the case- handheld meter suggestion please. Note I have an iPhone meter app already, so what's the gain?

[earleygallery]

I like using incident readings especially in tricky lighting. A good digital meter with capability to take reflected and incident readings will be more beneficial to you than an APP and you won't runs down your phone battery when out for the day !

 

Gossen make good meters.

[Brenton C]

Slightly off topic, ReturningToFilm, but may I suggest a straight razor?!

[madNbad]

Mostly I agree with James, get a M-A.  No electronics to worry about and not much different than your M4.  If you really want a metered M body then go with the MP.  Straight forward metering, controls are similar to what you are using now and it always works even if the battery dies.  However; if you say the kids will never appreciate this, I want the camera for myself, get a M7.  Great eye level ergonomics, auto exposure and the ability to use a flash with high speed sync.  Since they're all about the same price, go into the shop, put your money down and say, "Surprise me!"  Glad to have been of little help, have fun with your search.

[enboe]

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MP if metered, MA if not.  These have the best viewfinders made by Leica.  On the other hand, the M6 is very nice, and can be acquired for around $1000.

 

Enjoy!

[Doc Henry]

David for the second camera , for me MP  ... or MA without metering like your M4 

Best

Henry

[ReturningToFilm]

Slightly off topic, ReturningToFilm, but may I suggest a straight razor?!

I have often wondered about that!

[ReturningToFilm]

Thanks for the replies so far. I'll have a look at Gossen for a meter for now....

For future purchase I'm swayed toward the MP as I like the functionality if the battery fails and prefer the styling; however is it a bit crazy to make this change to get a meter in camera? My understanding is that the MP is superbly built and crafted, and it really would be a camera for life. Wouldn't make my pictures any better though!

[M9reno]

I've just gone the other way around and gone from an M6TTL to an M4.  I almost hate to say it, but why did I wait so long?  Without the metering detent on the shutter button, releasing is unbelievably smoother and quieter - sometimes I can hardly believe I've just taken a shot!

 

Besides, if you are looking for something to outlast you, romantic notion though that may be, forget about electronics.  Certainly your kids will have no use for a current digital Leica (if it will even work) a decade or so from now - and they may not have a use for a metered Leica if its electronics don't hold up.

 

As for the M-A, M7 and MP, why would you want a camera whose designers forgot or ignored an important part of Leica tradition and the analogue system: the facility of taking a re-loadable cassette (IXMOO and the like) (even if you don't see the need now, maybe one day you'll want to experiment with a bulk length of 35mm film of your choice)?  This may be a 'flaw' only to a romantic, but your idea of leaving an heirloom to your children makes me suspect you'd be in sympathy. 

 

Stick with your M4!

[Stealth3kpl]

I've just gone the other way around and gone from an M6TTL to an M4.  I almost hate to say it, but why did I wait so long?  Without the metering detent on the shutter button, releasing is unbelievably smoother and quieter - sometimes I can hardly believe I've just taken a shot!

 

 

 

. 

 

Stick with your M4!

 

I've actually considered sending my MPs in to lose the metering capability in favour of the M2 M4 MA one stage shutter release.

Pete

[Franek_]

Can't believe You consider aperture priority mode or 'Leica engraving on the top plate' as head to head alternative... But possibly I don't know enough about Leica geekery.

 

For me, M7 is the top of the ladder of Leica M bodies evolution. I consider Leica not as thing to own and look at the engravings, but to use it. And in the terms of usage, M7 is - for me - the best one. It has quiet shutter, great A mode which makes photographing much quicker and clear, bright and contrasty rangefinder path within very nice viewfinder. It's just right tool for the purpose it has been built - to make photographs.

 

So, I would take an M7 for it's aperture priority mode. But, if You don't care and f.e. take 'slower' shots and during the photographing process You've got enough time to play with full manual controls, M6 is great tool (or that new M-A if it have to be brand new camera with warranty). If for Cartier-Bresson it (I mean M6) was fine, I guess that I would be fine and enough for You either.

[ReturningToFilm]

Can't believe You consider aperture priority mode or 'Leica engraving on the top plate' as head to head alternative... But possibly I don't know enough about Leica geekery.

 

For me, M7 is the top of the ladder of Leica M bodies evolution. I consider Leica not as thing to own and look at the engravings, but to use it. And in the terms of usage, M7 is - for me - the best one. It has quiet shutter, great A mode which makes photographing much quicker and clear, bright and contrasty rangefinder path within very nice viewfinder. It's just right tool for the purpose it has been built - to make photographs.

Thanks- I take your point, but aesthetics of an object also inform ones enjoyment of use. It's not a direct comparison AE vs engraving - I'm not that daft! It's more a preferring the form of one yet appreciating the added functionality of the other, which in a la carte land would be no problem....but I don't inhabit that world...

As to what would be sufficient for my skills- my current set up is more than adequate, yet still drawn towards a camera body that isn't as old as I am....

[Franek_]

So, as I said - if You're ok with manual exposure, take something different than M7. Aperture priority mode which I find extremally usfefull is the only reason to get an M7. For me and my purposes, 'A mode' makes this camera the complete thing. You don't need anything more, anything less. Just load the film and shoot. But, there are people who prefers manual exposure mode; then choose that M-A or how it is called.

 

You can also read about some failures of electronics in M7 - I use my camera on daily basis and never had any problems with it.

[MarkP]

Can't believe You consider aperture priority mode or 'Leica engraving on the top plate' as head to head alternative... But possibly I don't know enough about Leica geekery.

 

For me, M7 is the top of the ladder of Leica M bodies evolution. I consider Leica not as thing to own and look at the engravings, but to use it. And in the terms of usage, M7 is - for me - the best one. It has quiet shutter, great A mode which makes photographing much quicker and clear, bright and contrasty rangefinder path within very nice viewfinder. It's just right tool for the purpose it has been built - to make photographs.

 

So, I would take an M7 for it's aperture priority mode. But, if You don't care and f.e. take 'slower' shots and during the photographing process You've got enough time to play with full manual controls, M6 is great tool (or that new M-A if it have to be brand new camera with warranty). If for Cartier-Bresson it (I mean M6) was fine, I guess that I would be fine and enough for You either.

 

 

Agreed

[wattsy]

So, I would take an M7 for it's aperture priority mode. But, if You don't care and f.e. take 'slower' shots and during the photographing process You've got enough time to play with full manual controls, M6 is great tool

 

I agree that the M7 is a terrific camera and the apogee of the M system if in-camera metering is your thing. At around £1200 used they are certainly the most bang-for-the-buck in Leicaland. However, I can't agree that there is anything slower about using a full manual M camera, especially if you forget about the M6/MP and consider the meterless options. IMO, in separating the metering of a scene from the operation of the camera, a meterless camera is the fastest kind of M camera to use.

[wattsy]

I've actually considered sending my MPs in to lose the metering capability in favour of the M2 M4 MA one stage shutter release.

Pete

 

 

Interesting. When I first bought my M-A and compared it with my MP, I found the difference in the shutter release travel barely noticeable. However, after using an M-A pretty much exclusively since last autumn, when I go back to using my MP, the difference now seems very marked indeed. In fact, I have missed shots using my MP because I haven't pressed the shutter release far enough.  I've also considered asking Leica to remove the metering from my MP (plus replace the frame masks with the M-A 'unbroken' ones and retune the shutter release) but I reckon the cost would be prohibitive compared with selling the MP and buying another M-A or older meterless body.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Franek_]

I agree that the M7 is a terrific camera and the apogee of the M system if in-camera metering is your thing. At around £1200 used they are certainly the most bang-for-the-buck in Leicaland. However, I can't agree that there is anything slower about using a full manual M camera, especially if you forget about the M6/MP and consider the meterless options. IMO, in separating the metering of a scene from the operation of the camera, a meterless camera is the fastest kind of M camera to use.

 

Ok, You can meter the light before entering the scene and before You start to photograph. But, imagine the situation with very strong light - You start to photograph something in that light, after that, You immediately see something interesting is going on in dark shadow. In such situation, it's impossible to adjust the exposure as quickly as the electronics in camera does. Not to mention the situation that Your camera is inside Your bag and You need to pick it up and take a snap quickly.

 

If You measure the light in particular scene and want to photograph objects which are in similiar light - I agree with You, You don't need aperture priority mode. But in such circumstances, You don't need even a built in lightmeter. And one more thing - M7 can operate in manual mode either.

 

By the way, I took a look on Your website, second photograph in the 'TRAVEL' section (Isle of Wight) - great, great shot.

[Stealth3kpl]

Ok, You can meter the light before entering the scene and before You start to photograph. But, imagine the situation with very strong light - You start to photograph something in that light, after that, You immediately see something interesting is going on in dark shadow. In such situation, it's impossible to adjust the exposure as quickly as the electronics in camera does. Not to mention the situation that Your camera is inside Your bag and You need to pick it up and take a snap quickly.

 

 But it can cut both ways. Imagine a subject which has strong back lighting. Whilst on auto, the meter is tricked or the photographer fumbles for some exposure compensation, my finger has slowed my shutter 3 stops and I already have the shot  . I take your point though.

pete