New Leica M coming this year?

[thrid]

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I would not be surprised if at some point the RF unit became electro-mechanical.  I'm pretty certain that they would make sure that in operation it had the exact same feel as the current solution; except that it would focus more accurately and be easier (cheaper) to manufacture. We would probably also see electronic parallax compensated frame lines in the OVF.

 

But again, I doubt that in practice their electronic solution would look and feel any different than the purely mechanical implementation. Leica has been known to do stupid things, but that doesn't mean they actually are stupid. They know better than to mess with the gestalt of the camera by turning it in to a Fuji.

 

What doesn't make sense in the article is the assumption that a electronic the RF unit will make the M thinner. I am almost certain that the M got fat, because Leica has not been able to make a super thin LCD screen for the rear of the camera. They aren't exactly Sony, when it comes to shrinking electronics.

 

I can't picture them doing away with the rear LCD screen for their mainstream camera, even if there was some sort of X100 type overlay system in the viewfinder.

 

I'm not buying the T lenses on M either, unless they also plan on having an adapter that performs autofocus and somehow communicates with the electronic RF unit. 

 

 

Who knows, maybe the Leica 116 is the long-awaited Leica CL in the lineup? The market for $8000 camera bodies is only so big and they have to pay for that new campus somehow.

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[Lenshacker]

..... well that's a bit of a contradictory jumble of possible fact and fiction........

 

without a traditional optical rangefinder it is not an M ..... by definition ....... and it is hard to see how the current optical mechanism could be replaced by a more compact alternative and retain RF accuracy ......

 

 

It's a long-standing tradition! Leica M1 (viewfinder with projected framelines, no RF) and Leica MD (no viewfinder).

 

Think of the new one as a great MicroScope camera.

[Peter Kilmister]

Rangefinders have been around for donkey's years. They were used on warships to determine the range for their guns. A simple rangefinder arrangement was used by the Dambusters by shining two fixed lights so that when their beams met the bomber was at the exact height to unleash its specialist weapon. It relies on a simple bi-optical principle.

 

However, modern technology is rapidly replacing these established traditions. Radar took over on warships for precise gunnery. Altimeters can pinpoint one's height in relation to another surface's height. Aircraft have used this for years. GPS can pin point our position almost to a meter.

 

OK, most of you know this but we all love a rangefinder. Are we all odd throwbacks? I don't think so. There is a lovely feel to a rangefinder. Annoying at times but great when you get a direct hit, so to speak. It will be interesting to see what develops with the future offerings from Leica. I can't wait.

[jaapv]

Jaap, we do not know what Leica expected at the introduction, but it was more than they are selling. It is readily available. I know so and I don't understand how anyone would be surprised by this. Maybe it is flying off the shelves in Europe and Asia, but the sales in the US are underwhelming. And btw. they were below expectations already by the number of pre-orders. Despite the manufacturing process, the T was not meant as a "special edition" camera, and it does not require the same caliber technician to polish aluminum bodies that it takes to assemble 50mm Apo lenses. It almost seems like everyone takes offense to this. I mentioned this in my post to make the point that I think a full-frame version of an EVF camera without rangefinder is a good idea, and I didn't pull it out of thin air. I said before that I know it from a source that should know the sales expectations, I didn't make it up. There are plenty of alternatives to Leica's T series that are cheaper, and some of them are full-frame and accept M lenses. Full-frame and price still matter to people, and the T system was designed to expand the market beyond M users.

Well Bernd, I am not privy to their expectations, but to think that a NEX-type camera at that pricepoint would sell like an iPhone appears to me to be naively optimistic, to say the least, despite a revolutionary user interface. I cannot believe that the marketing guys at Leica would be that much disconnected from the real world. Nor do I think that a production process that has a bottleneck of maximally 50 cameras per week for one worker, regardless of skill, is geared for mass production.

Remember, in Germany one cannot hire and fire depending on demand...

[kkcsm]

I'm curious, if Leica's next M camera, implemented the rangefinder with a different mechanism (optical viewfinder with digital focus rectangle perhaps), assuming it functioned identically, would you care that the mechanism is different?  Personally, I would not.  I would love a thinner, lighter digital M camera.  Assuming it's still a rangefinder and it functions the same with no detectable viewfinder lag.

[BerndReini]

 

 

Well Bernd, I am not privy to their expectations, but to think that a NEX-type camera at that pricepoint would sell like an iPhone appears to me to be naively optimistic, to say the least, despite a revolutionary user interface. I cannot believe that the marketing guys at Leica would be that much disconnected from the real world. Nor do I think that a production process that has a bottleneck of maximally 50 cameras per week for one worker, regardless of skill, is geared for mass production.

Remember, in Germany one cannot hire and fire depending on demand...

Jaap, unfortunately temp labor is very common in Germany these days and polishing aluminum is not as fancy or difficult a job as the marketing videos make it seem. When you go back and watch Dr. Kaufmann's interview about the T-system, you will notice that the expectation of an Apple style product that pulls in a young hip consumer was exactly what the T-system was intended to become. There are a whole lot of Leica boutiques shooting up everywhere. I actually heard about the lower than expected numbers in reference to how high the numbers of pre-orders for the new M246 are. There was definitely said naiveté about the T, and to some extent the X system, while the good old M -system is chugging along nicely. And it is exactly because it offers something that's different from the competition. Look at the fire sales of the NEX-7 at $500 with a lens. How are you going to compete with that? I believe that the T-system was a good idea and it can still work, but it is going head to head with some stiff competition, and it was probably well under way before the Sony A7 was released. I bet that cut into a good part of the sales, as did the Fujis. Speaking of Fuji, they have been copying Leica for the last couple of years. I think it is time Leica steal some ideas from them and get things right that they aren't getting right. Think about it, the T-system was too expensive of a project to not be selling in high numbers. Maybe the marketing team was not oblivious, but maybe someone at Leica was too excited about the project for them to speak their minds about it. Now that part is just my speculation. Fact is though that the two biggest stores on the West Coast are not selling nearly as many T cameras as expected. Either way, I'm hoping that the Q becomes something that M users would consider as a backup. It needs to play well with M lenses, have a fast EVF, no noticeable shutter lag, and be priced well below the street price of an M240. 

[cirke]

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It sounds perfect :-)  Something between M240 and Sony A7  I get it at once

[jaapv]

Bernd, your post suddenly brought the image of the Leica Gnomes beavering away at T body shells in their forest to my mind, and the sounds of Mime’s Dwarve’s Forge from the Nibelungen... :D.

 

Maybe somebody forgot that Apple’s products proudly display: “Designed in California, assembled in China”....

[bocaburger]

I'm curious, if Leica's next M camera, implemented the rangefinder with a different mechanism (optical viewfinder with digital focus rectangle perhaps), assuming it functioned identically, would you care that the mechanism is different?  Personally, I would not.  I would love a thinner, lighter digital M camera.  Assuming it's still a rangefinder and it functions the same with no detectable viewfinder lag.

Idk.  I'd have to make that decision when I see it.  The LED frame lines in the M240 are extremely annoying to me.  For one thing they are always too bright (and I positively detest the red ones).  For another they require the camera to be awake.  It was a case of Leica fixing something that wasn't broken.  Idk if the LED system costs them less to produce, but I wish they'd backtrack on it like the backtracked on the frame selector. 

 

For me the one and only reason I paid that much for the M240 is the optomechanical rangefinder I've been used to for 45 years.  Take that away, or alter it perceptibly, and I really have no impetus to keep buying Leica's. 

[tenmangu81]

I would love a thinner, lighter digital M camera.  Assuming it's still a rangefinder and it functions the same with no detectable viewfinder lag.

Yes, that's the basic need. Otherwise, if it worked like as slow as an EVF, I won't go to it.

[lct]

Modern EVFs are faster though and i like much that of my Fuji X-E2 to be honest, but it becomes useless when there is too much contrast or too little light in the scene so i can't seem to figure out how any kind of EVF could replace the optical patch of a rangefinder. For a kind of digital CL, why not, for an optional focusing device, why not again, but to replace current Ms, zero chance IMHO.

[blueweed]

Leica M9- September 2009

 

Leica M240- tested October 2012

 

Leica Mxxx- Q4 2015?

 

not too hard to telegraph...

[mjh]

That there will be a new M in late 2015 or early 2016 is indeed quite likely; the question is whether it will be a traditional rangefinder or something else entirely. Lavidaleica have occasionally been right while sometimes they were way off the mark – remember the ‘high megapixel M camera’ they were so sure Leica would introduce at last year’s photokina (see http://lavidaleica.com/content/high-megapixel-m-camera-photokina)? That was just the figment of somebody’s all too fertile imagination.

[BerndReini]

How hard can it be to improve the M240? The MP version of the M240 was a bit of a letdown, as the P upgrades usually are.

 

Better EVF with moveable zoom area, faster refresh rate, no shutter lag, faster wake up time. Done. That's what I would all an M240P.

[mirekti]

I am so content with the M240 that I will definitely skip this iteration. In my world I only need two more stops of dynamic range and a better iso (won

t happen this time), and all that in certain situations only.
Enjoy reading the speculations, though.  

[jonoslack]

Hmmm well - three truths about LaVida Leica

1. their predictions are nearly always garbage

2. they always say they predicted it correctly when something appears (who saves what they said 3 months back to check?).

3. they're extremely unpleasant to the competition . . . calling dear old leicarumors "bottom feeders" is unnecessary, and their attack on Thorsten was quite beyond the pail.

 

I think that mjh is too kind to them. 

 

This is unquestionably a hodge podge of half understood rumours and incorrect inferences. 

 

Hardly worth discussing I'd say. Beyond that; whatever outlandish cameras might crop up I'm sure that Leica aren't ditching the rangefinder in their M cameras (why would they?). 

[Jeff S]

 

1. their predictions are nearly always garbage

2. they always say they predicted it correctly when something appears (who saves what they said 3 months back to check?).

 

Not only do they claim to have predicted correctly, they claim exclusive scoops, as quoted in the article discussed here...

 

 "But regular readers of La Vida Leica know that we've had many exclusive scoops in the past... The (new) Leica M Monochrom, M-E, M-A, T and X Vario to name a few."

 

Jeff

[rosuna]

There is more than wild speculation... 

 

http://www.dslrmagazine.com/digital/camaras-de-telemetro-y-especiales/leica-m-cura-de-adelgazamiento.html

 

(Some kind of signals point in that direction).

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[AndreasAM]

There is more than wild speculation... 

 

http://www.dslrmagazine.com/digital/camaras-de-telemetro-y-especiales/leica-m-cura-de-adelgazamiento.html

 

(Some kind of signals point in that direction).

 

 

Possibly echoing La Vida Leica. There is no indication of different sources, so I don't take it very serious.

[wattsy]

Hmmm well - three truths about LaVida Leica

1. their predictions are nearly always garbage

2. they always say they predicted it correctly when something appears (who saves what they said 3 months back to check?).

3. they're extremely unpleasant to the competition . . . calling dear old leicarumors "bottom feeders" is unnecessary, and their attack on Thorsten was quite beyond the pail.

 

I think that mjh is too kind to them. 

 

 

Yes, "tabloid" style at its worst. A dreadful website.