EdwardM Posted May 16, 2015 Share #381 Posted May 16, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) I can understand that you are annoyed, but what has a pricetag todo with customr service? Would it be OK if their cameras cost half the price? I think not. Anyway, I find this whole affair rather amazing, as Leica is normally quite customer-oriented. Ok, let me explain the reason of my frustration. 1. Russian Authorized dealer position is: We can not upgrade your M-9P to M240-P due the price difference of camera between Russia and Europe/USA. Currently M240P price tag in Moscow is 477 000 RUB, which is 9 600 USD. 2. The price tag for M240-P in EUROPE/USA roughly is 7000 USD 3. Russian dealer says: we can not do that upgrade due the price tag difference and "we don't want to pay that difference from our own pocket, we are trying to convince Leica Germany reimburse us that difference. 4. Ok, than I called and emailed Germany customer service and asked them for advice. Their position is: we can not send you new M240-P by post due strict and crazy Russian custom regulation. Come by with your camera and make a swap here, in Germany. 5. Now they are both playing soccer - russian dealer and head office. Russian dealer doesn't want to Make an upgrade for 3300 EUR and Leica Germay doesn't want to reimburse them that price difference. 6. I don't personally care what's going on between head office and its dealer, I am a Leica customer. That's it. If Leia can't find solution in ther own business, than I don't understand the meaning of that upgrade proposal. Finally, I feel that I just live in wrong country. I don't think that Leca would act the same way in Europe or USA. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 16, 2015 Posted May 16, 2015 Hi EdwardM, Take a look here Leica Upgrade program for M9 ( corrosion of sensor). I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
EdwardM Posted May 16, 2015 Share #382 Posted May 16, 2015 Come to think of it, is your camera in Wetzlar? Leica can only make you an offer after they have evaluated the camera - the upgrade price is not a fixed sum - it depends on the condition of the camera sent in. The 3300 Euro you mention is just a ballpark figure distilled from forum posts. No! It's in Moscow, at authorized dealer. 1. Leica Moscow evaluated the camera and confirmed the sensor corrosion. So it's valid for upgrade. 2. 3300 is not ballpark figure. This number was comfirmed me by phone by Leica representative from Germany. They have not seen the condition of the camera. Seems that price is fixed. And it was confirmed could of times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardM Posted May 16, 2015 Share #383 Posted May 16, 2015 I too am surprised at this. Leica thrive on their service, if a little slow at times - try Nikon if you want frustration. I'm sure Russian Customs can be awkward but the Dealer manages to obtain stock. Something strange here. If you are interested I can send you my correspondence with them... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted May 16, 2015 Share #384 Posted May 16, 2015 My take is different than yours. The dealer should get you your camera and money, eat the cost and figure out how to get their money from Leica without getting you involved. That's what dealers are for. I'd never do business with them again…and that would be the nicest thing I'd convey to them. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted May 16, 2015 Share #385 Posted May 16, 2015 I don't live in Europe either. Leica gave me the choice of dealing with the local importer, or directly. For a number of reasons (mostly historic) I sent my camera directly to Germany. That involved a number of customs declarations, but I got it through. Leica then invoiced me for the upgrade price. They charged my credit card and then sent the replacement camera to me. I then had to clear NZ customs, which included paying taxes on the upgrade price. Your situation doesnt sound that different. Why are you blaming Leica for the fact that you live in Russia? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardM Posted May 16, 2015 Share #386 Posted May 16, 2015 Im happy to proceed the way you just described - but they did not proposed me thar either. Did you read the fact properly? Leica Gernany did not proposed me to send me camera and charge me from my credit card. Nothing. That's an issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardM Posted May 16, 2015 Share #387 Posted May 16, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) The only advice was to bring it to Leica in Wetzmar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted May 16, 2015 Share #388 Posted May 16, 2015 Im happy to proceed the way you just described - but they did not proposed me thar either. Did you read the fact properly? Leica Gernany did not proposed me to send me camera and charge me from my credit card. Nothing. That's an issue. I can understand why Leica suggested you visit them - easier for both of you by a long way Why not ask Leica if you can send the camera to them directly? I have sent many cameras and lenses to them over the last 6 years. I did read your posts with some care - sorry if I gave the impression I had not. I wasn't suggesting you deal with the local dealer at all. The alternative of dealing with the local dealer seems a waste of time. Good luck. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardM Posted May 16, 2015 Share #389 Posted May 16, 2015 You are right, that's my last purchase at local dealer. I had the same experience with Russian dealers of swiss watch brands and finally decided to deal directly with Geneva salons. As you suggested, I have asked Leica Germany customer service what if I send them my camera by DHL. They told me that its impossible - as the would not be able to charge me for upgrade remotely and would not be able to send new M240 to Moscow. I was patient for all this time and was waiting for solution but seems that they don't have consensus with their own local dealer in Moscow. Overall, due the huge amount of white stains in Russian legislation, many foreign brands dealing here in Russia like they never would in Europe and USA. Its intetrsting, that Russian Leica web-site has nothing about M9 corrosion problems, Leica goodwill offer and upgrade program. Its a part of businesses nature everywhere - if you can sell something without responsibility and commitment for after-sale service, just do it... And its not only about Leica in Russia. Rolex do the same... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted May 16, 2015 Share #390 Posted May 16, 2015 The weather in Germany is very nice at this time of year, and I hear that Wetzlar is a very pretty town ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardM Posted May 16, 2015 Share #391 Posted May 16, 2015 And finally, its pity, that commercial guestire and business interests ( cost cutting wherever its possible) just harm the reputation of brands were created by talant and genius inventors... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardM Posted May 16, 2015 Share #392 Posted May 16, 2015 good point, but i can not fly to Weltzmar just to bring them camera with corroded lens, caused by their fault;) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted May 16, 2015 Share #393 Posted May 16, 2015 good point, but i can not fly to Weltzmar just to bring them camera with corroded lens, caused by their fault;) Yes, the fault with the camera is theirs. Russia isn't. What I was trying to suggest was that a person who could afford Leicas and Rolexes could afford a holiday in Germany - it's a nice place. Sorry to have wasted your time (and mine). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardM Posted May 16, 2015 Share #394 Posted May 16, 2015 I don't want to argue here. I can for sure. but it doesn't mean that they can act with their client that way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 16, 2015 Share #395 Posted May 16, 2015 Just Fedex the camera to Wetzlar and let Leica sort it. Your local dealer is not authorized to do upgrade deals - only Leica Wetzlar ( or Leica USA and presumably Leica UK) are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted May 17, 2015 Share #396 Posted May 17, 2015 Dealers aren't authorized to do repairs either…but they sure should be more capable as the 'middle man' than this useless dealer seems. At the very least, the dealer should know whether or not the customer should deal directly with Leica...and advise the customer accordingly. In his position, I would now deal directly with Leica as well, but dealers like that shouldn't be in business. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger1914 Posted May 17, 2015 Share #397 Posted May 17, 2015 Just Fedex the camera to Wetzlar and let Leica sort it. Your local dealer is not authorized to do upgrade deals - only Leica Wetzlar ( or Leica USA and presumably Leica UK) are. Leica Australia can do it as well. I am hoping that my M-P will arrive today; in fact! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardM Posted May 17, 2015 Share #398 Posted May 17, 2015 Wish you get it soon my friend! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardM Posted May 18, 2015 Share #399 Posted May 18, 2015 The quote from Leica web-site: The effect described does not affect the CMOS sensor of the Leica M (Typ 240). Should you be considering an upgrade from your camera to a Leica M or M-P (Typ 240), Customer Care would be pleased to make you an attractive offer following a check of your camera and under consideration of the model and its age. If the imaging quality of your camera gives cause for complaint in this respect, we recommend that you send it directly to Leica Customer Care or the authorized Customer Care department of your country’s Leica distributor. As longer waiting times may otherwise occur, the camera should only be sent to Customer Care after prior arrangement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted May 18, 2015 Share #400 Posted May 18, 2015 I wonder if the Ukraine situation and the consequent embargos/sanctions are complicating the customs situation and export from Germany to the point that it is no longer possible for Leica to send warranty replacement items to Russia. Otherwise I cannot see why the OP cannot send his affected camera straight to Wetzlar and then use his credit card or bank transfer (subject again to sanctions rules) to pay the difference direct to Leica Germany. Now the problem arises when the camera arrives back at Russian customs. My guess is that they will want import duties and taxes on the total value of the replacing M240, rather than the upgrade price. In some countries there is specific paperwork to cover this situation, where you fill in a form and get it registered for the export tax credit for the allowed exchange value of the faulty camera being permanently exported back to Germany. This tax credit is then offset against the duties and taxes of the replacing incoming new camera, on presenting the registered tax credit form to the customs authorities, when paying the dues for the new camera. However I have no idea if this is how it works in Russia. Back in the 1960's and 70's before the UK joined the EU we used to have to use this sort scheme for dealing with racing car engines and gearboxes going from the UK to EU countries for rebuilds/service exchange and also for the US built Weismann racing gearboxes and Donovan motors going backwards and forwards from the UK to the US. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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