jaapv Posted December 29, 2014 Share #221 Posted December 29, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) I don’t think they will, Leica’s announcement was quite satisfactory. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 Hi jaapv, Take a look here Leica Upgrade program for M9 ( corrosion of sensor). I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Raid Amin Posted December 29, 2014 Share #222 Posted December 29, 2014 I would not be sure about it, Jaap. There are FF alternatives out there unless RF is needed, of course. I am not considering selling my digital Leica cameras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 29, 2014 Share #223 Posted December 29, 2014 Time will tell... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted December 29, 2014 Share #224 Posted December 29, 2014 If you start off from the position that the M camera will never be mainstream, then it is a fair assumption that M9 owners are not, generally, entirely rational - no AF, no through the lens focus confirmation, old fashioned looks etc - is the sensor failure enough to drive them off in significant numbers? My guess is not. That shouldn't stop Leica owners from pushing them to do better. I dislike fawning, uncritical acceptance of everything Leica does. I prefer it if people admit their mistakes as soon as they become apparent, and then do the right thing. If Leica had identified the sensor issue at the outset (before the furore here), and Stefan Daniel had made his statement immediately (rather than the muddled and contradictory approach at first), very few here would complain and the impact on Leica sales would be minimal. I doubt there will be a flood of departures. The truth is that Leica replaced my sensor immediately, at no cost. I doubt I'm alone in that respect. Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raid Amin Posted December 29, 2014 Share #225 Posted December 29, 2014 Many years ago, Kodak (in Tennessee) perfected quality control for some product by applying quality assurance education at all levels (from the Top to the Bottom), in addition to training ALL companies that supplied parts to Kodak on quality control. Maybe this is needed again, but with Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berth Posted December 29, 2014 Share #226 Posted December 29, 2014 Well, objects in the mirror are farther than they appear. I went to my local authorized Leica dealer today with the intent of upgrading from my M-E to the M-240. I was informed that Leica will only repair the sensors of the original camera owners, not subsequent owners. Should you care? Well, what that means in practice is that even if your sensor is perfect, or has been replaced under the program, if you try to sell your beautiful Leica the new buyer has no protection at all. And, if they do their homework, or are buying from a reputable Leica dealer, they'll soon be aware of that fact. Leica by publicly acknowledging the product flaw, but with the replacement policy described, has managed to blow up the resale market for every owner. I was offered $1700 for a 9-month old M-E in absolute mint condition. That's 70% depreciation. I've dropped a note to Leica Customer Service asking for verification. Not very happy, or impressed at this juncture. Did my Leica dealer get wrong information? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 29, 2014 Share #227 Posted December 29, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Your dealer is misinformed. And they made you a ridiculous offer. Time to switch, methinks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalHeMan Posted December 29, 2014 Share #228 Posted December 29, 2014 Your dealer is misinformed. And they made you a ridiculous offer. Time to switch, methinks. Agree with Jaap here. I was offered 3300€ as part ex on my M-E two months, although this was before the sensor issue came up. I'm also pretty sure I have read something somewhere about the sensor replacement being regardless of whether you purchased the camera new or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berth Posted December 29, 2014 Share #229 Posted December 29, 2014 Well, objects in the mirror are farther than they appear. I went to my local authorized Leica dealer today with the intent of upgrading from my M-E to the M-240. I was informed that Leica will only repair the sensors of the original camera owners, not subsequent owners. Should you care? Well, what that means in practice is that even if your sensor is perfect, or has been replaced under the program, if you try to sell your beautiful Leica the new buyer has no protection at all. And, if they do their homework, or are buying from a reputable Leica dealer, they'll soon be aware of that fact. Leica by publicly acknowledging the product flaw, but with the replacement policy described, has managed to blow up the resale market for every owner. I was offered $1700 for a 9-month old M-E in absolute mint condition. That's 70% depreciation. I've dropped a note to Leica Customer Service asking for verification. Not very happy, or impressed at this juncture. Did my Leica dealer get wrong information? Your dealer is misinformed. And they made you a ridiculous offer. Time to switch, methinks. Agree with Jaap here. I was offered 3300€ as part ex on my M-E two months, although this was before the sensor issue came up. I'm also pretty sure I have read something somewhere about the sensor replacement being regardless of whether you purchased the camera new or not. I hope you're both right and that Leica will correct that 'misunderstanding' directly to the dealer, and via e-mail to me. Unfortunately the next closest Leica dealer is 300 miles away, not really accessible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted December 30, 2014 Share #230 Posted December 30, 2014 You might send Leica CS an e-mail asking for written clarification. Although I doubt their reply will change your dealer's offer, maybe it will persuade them to change their apparent opinion that people who have arrived at a station in life where they can afford these cameras are nonetheless gullible and stupid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgnag Posted December 30, 2014 Share #231 Posted December 30, 2014 I would love to know the answer to this? I am about to pull the trigger on an M-E and the resale is an important factor to me. I also sent Leica CS an e-mail a few weeks ago asking this exact question regarding sensor replacement for a subsequent owner. I have not heard back, but everyone seems to think that yes it would cover a subsequent owner. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berth Posted December 30, 2014 Share #232 Posted December 30, 2014 You might send Leica CS an e-mail asking for written clarification. Although I doubt their reply will change your dealer's offer, maybe it will persuade them to change their apparent opinion that people who have arrived at a station in life where they can afford these cameras are nonetheless gullible and stupid. I have sent notes to Leica CS (both US and Germany) asking for clarification. But you might be right, the dealer could keep playing the game, if it is that. The guy I talked to was young, and perhaps he was under the misapprehension I had 'buyer's fever' and would take a low-ball offer, or suffer from senility. I suspect though unless he's the boss's son he might have overreached his portfolio. Or he simply might have been ignorant, lots of ignorance in retail these days. Silly boy, I was thinking of buying both a M-240 with a spare battery and screen protector and a 35mm f/2 Summicron-M Asph. And that $10k sale walked out the door. If I get clarification from Leica that buyers of used M-E cameras are covered by their warranty I'll make contact with the dealer again, but ask for their senior guy and ask him to make an offer on my M-E. If I get the same song & dance I'll simply go to B&H where I've spent a few tens of thousands over the years, including the M-E and my MP. I prefer local, sometimes even will pay a smidge more to do so, but I'm not really open to someone trying to con me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berth Posted December 30, 2014 Share #233 Posted December 30, 2014 I remain open to the possibility that young man was accurately conveying Leica's policy towards sensor replacement, only to original owners, in which case they've blown up the "Leica holds its value" rationale for a Leica purchase. I myself would think long and hard about buying an M-E or any of the cameras using that CCD sensor, new or used, except at a very steep discount. And wonder about support for flaws not yet disclosed in other Leica products. Dear me, I truly hope that's not true. Leica Customer Service is on holiday so my query to them isn't going to be answered this week I suspect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted December 30, 2014 Share #234 Posted December 30, 2014 Dealers were not informed by Leica prior to the general statement that was published on this forum, nor separately after that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted December 30, 2014 Share #235 Posted December 30, 2014 Leica's published statement is here (and in this forum). I think the general reading of it is that the sensor will be replaced regardless of who owns the camera but, in truth, the statement only refers to the age of the camera not whether it applies to non-original owners or not. Anecdotal evidence suggests that Leica are not applying any kind of first-owner limitation but clarification on this matter wouldn't hurt. Leica offers a free replacement service for the CCD sensors of cameras affected by this problem as a goodwill arrangement. This goodwill arrangement applies regardless of the age of the camera and also covers sensors that have already been replaced in the past. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raid Amin Posted December 30, 2014 Share #236 Posted December 30, 2014 I had a defective sensor and board last June, and Leica (NJ) replaced both parts for free, but they added labor cost of about $500. My camera was bought used. In my camera, images would be 50% blackened out. I was told by Leica that most likely this is not related to the currently discussed sensor problems, but it shows that Leica replaced the parts for free for a second hand Leica M9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raid Amin Posted December 30, 2014 Share #237 Posted December 30, 2014 Since I will be chatting with the Leica AG CEO soon, let me know of any issues that you want to be discussed. There may be not better time/person to talk to than the CEO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted December 30, 2014 Share #238 Posted December 30, 2014 I had a defective sensor and board last June, and Leica (NJ) replaced both parts for free, but they added labor cost of about $500. My camera was bought used. In my camera, images would be 50% blackened out. I was told by Leica that most likely this is not related to the currently discussed sensor problems, but it shows that Leica replaced the parts for free for a second hand Leica M9. The $500,- labor cost can be claimed back by you according to the new regulations: "Customers who have already been charged for the replacement of a sensor affected by this problem will receive a refund." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 30, 2014 Share #239 Posted December 30, 2014 But his sensor was not affected by this problem.... It was a motherboard that malfunctioned and had nothing to do with sensor corrosion So the refund policy will not apply, unless Leica is into courtesy refunds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted December 30, 2014 Share #240 Posted December 30, 2014 But his sensor was not affected by this problem.... It was a motherboard that malfunctioned and had nothing to do with sensor corrosionSo the refund policy will not apply, unless Leica is into courtesy refunds. With such an enormous problem Solms would have been accommodating. I've got the impression that New Jersey is holding its ass tight more often Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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