Leica Upgrade program for M9 ( corrosion of sensor)

[Marignac]

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I would not be sure about it, Jaap. There are FF alternatives out there unless RF is needed, of course. I am not considering selling my digital Leica cameras.

 

This is the issue: both are correct - there are other FF out there, and there are no other RF out there.

 

I have had two broken sensors on M8 as well as M9 (horizontal stripe in bottom left quadrant on M8 and two parallel stripes on right half on M9, both visible ISO >400). M8 sensor change was at 640 EUR, sensor of M9 from 2009 was for free this summer. I received both cameras w/ completely messed focus, M9 new sensor even with fat dirt on it, so both cameras had to go back to Wetzlar again (the M9 is yet to go). Plus several months waiting period. I don't blame them for the sensor mess, these things tend to crash sooner or later and I remember very well the mess Pentax suffered on launching K5. The problem is the state of things on reception of the fixed cameras as mentioned above.

 

So, basically I could move on shooting w/ my 6D. I bought it while M9 was out in summer for fixing as a replacement of old 5D which I kept stand-by. I never thought I'd like a DSLR again so much: it's tiny, powerful, reliable, lightweight etc. And it is nice once in a while to have AF, perfect ISO, in-camera lens-adjusting and to use zoom lenses. So, why not acquire excellent lenses for 6D (Sigma Art etc) and sell Leica equipment?

 

But then: no paring whatsoever matches the combo CCD + Summicron 50/IV + CV Nokton 1.2asph. Those images are just mind-blowing, particularly when doing a lot of large prints (1,10m x ad libitum), which I do. Plus I just work more precisely w/ RF.

 

So, yes, there are alternatives. But no, they are no equivalent. So I decided to write the M9 off financially, for at some point, there'll be no more sensors left and I go with that baby as long as I can. When only Leica CS returns perfect working tools but no messed RF and dirty sensors

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[Raid Amin]

With such an enormous problem Solms would have been accommodating. I've got the impression that New Jersey is holding its ass tight more often

 

An online customer service Leica AG person told me that what my error seemed to be (based on my description of the symptoms) required labor cost to be covered by me.

 

I will mention this to Alfred Schopf, though.

[otto.f]

I will mention this to Alfred Schopf, though.

 

That was my point. I mean, come on!

My sensor was replaced for free ( labor costs included ) 26 months after I bought it because there was a scratch, of which it was not at all certain that it was THE problem. Not to speak of a motherboard hallelujah

If it is not a difference in policy between NJ and Solms, the policy of 'Kulanz' or strictness seems to fluctuate or is quite inconsistent over the years.

[Raid Amin]

So far, I have these points:

 

1. Leica should invest more in the post sales service instead of opening so many boutiques worldwide !

 

2. Consider replacing the IR cover glass that is over the sensor with another type of cover (BG-18) that is less sensitive to humidity.

 

3. Be more consistent in deciding whether to charge or not charge for sensor issues repairs.

[otto.f]

So far, I have these points:

 

1. Leica should invest more in the post sales service instead of opening so many boutiques worldwide !

 

2. Consider replacing the IR cover glass that is over the sensor with another type of cover (BG-18) that is less sensitive to humidity.

 

3. Be more consistent in deciding whether to charge or not charge for sensor issues repairs.

 

... and stop the bargaining at the repair counter by giving a 5 years warranty on cameras as with lenses

[DigitalHeMan]

... and stop the bargaining at the repair counter by giving a 5 years warranty on cameras as with lenses

 

 

I'm not aware that lenses have 5 year warranty. Is that worldwide?

[Marignac]

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... and stop the bargaining at the repair counter by giving a 5 years warranty on cameras as with lenses

 

and treat customers even. Some seem to receive extra-treatment, some home-cooking, some seem to go naked

[jaapv]

6D? was that not the sensor disaster Nikon attempted to cover up under the pressure of class action suits?

This is the issue: both are correct - there are other FF out there, and there are no other RF out there.

 

I have had two broken sensors on M8 as well as M9 (horizontal stripe in bottom left quadrant on M8 and two parallel stripes on right half on M9, both visible ISO >400). M8 sensor change was at 640 EUR, sensor of M9 from 2009 was for free this summer. I received both cameras w/ completely messed focus, M9 new sensor even with fat dirt on it, so both cameras had to go back to Wetzlar again (the M9 is yet to go). Plus several months waiting period. I don't blame them for the sensor mess, these things tend to crash sooner or later and I remember very well the mess Pentax suffered on launching K5. The problem is the state of things on reception of the fixed cameras as mentioned above.

 

So, basically I could move on shooting w/ my 6D. I bought it while M9 was out in summer for fixing as a replacement of old 5D which I kept stand-by. I never thought I'd like a DSLR again so much: it's tiny, powerful, reliable, lightweight etc. And it is nice once in a while to have AF, perfect ISO, in-camera lens-adjusting and to use zoom lenses. So, why not acquire excellent lenses for 6D (Sigma Art etc) and sell Leica equipment?

 

But then: no paring whatsoever matches the combo CCD + Summicron 50/IV + CV Nokton 1.2asph. Those images are just mind-blowing, particularly when doing a lot of large prints (1,10m x ad libitum), which I do. Plus I just work more precisely w/ RF.

 

So, yes, there are alternatives. But no, they are no equivalent. So I decided to write the M9 off financially, for at some point, there'll be no more sensors left and I go with that baby as long as I can. When only Leica CS returns perfect working tools but no messed RF and dirty sensors

[tobey bilek]

6D? was that not the sensor disaster Nikon attempted to cover up under the pressure of class action suits?[/QUOT

 

6D is a Canon. Nikon is perfect. And I have a bridge to sell in Brooklyn

[tobey bilek]

You might send Leica CS an e-mail asking for written clarification. Although I doubt their reply will change your dealer's offer, maybe it will persuade them to change their apparent opinion that people who have arrived at a station in life where they can afford these cameras are nonetheless gullible and stupid.

 

Miss information is reason for the dealer to lowball.

 

I know one dealer who wanted to charge sales tax on a new M9 when I had same value in trade in gear. I called the state dept of revenue and they said NO TAX due . I mailed a link to revenue code and they would not relent. They claimed their lawyers said differently. Talked to two other dealers and both said something smells fishy.

 

Good luck. Find a new dealer.

[jaapv]

You are right. It was the D600

 

Let me google that for you

[Raid Amin]

I have this list so far:

 

1. Leica should invest more in the post sales service instead of opening so many boutiques worldwide !

 

2. Consider replacing the IR cover glass that is over the sensor with another type of cover (BG-18) that is less sensitive to humidity.

 

3. Be more consistent in deciding whether to charge or not charge for sensor issues repairs.

 

 

4. Stop the bargaining at the repair counter by giving a 5 years warranty on cameras as with lenses

 

5. Don't ever stop making CCD based Digital cameras.

 

6. Make the upgrade from the M9 immediate, even if the sensor is working.

[Marignac]

6D? was that not the sensor disaster Nikon attempted to cover up under the pressure of class action suits?

 

Jaap, I'm not sure if I succeeded in making my point clear: I was not blaming Leica for the sensors. Au contraire, I even recalled Pentax going the same troublesome way with their K5 sensors.

 

I was rather frustrated to be returned messed calibrations after sensor change, and worse, even getting dirty sensors returned.

 

Just BTW: the CS people were absolutely wonderful people, available at any time, helpful, responsive, polite, very sympathetic.

 

And just talking as Leica enthousiast, but also as a photographer: the 6D is one little beast of a camera.

[jaapv]

I was pointing out in a roundabout way that it is not about things going pearshaped -they will do so despite all efforts- it is the way the company handles the resulting mess. And Leica, after a false start, came through.

[Berth]

I was pointing out in a roundabout way that it is not about things going pearshaped -they will do so despite all efforts- it is the way the company handles the resulting mess. And Leica, after a false start, came through.

 

I sure hope you're right about that.

 

But if the story I got from my local dealer is accurate though - only original owners will be eligible for the sensor replacement - Leica has blown up the Leica value model, providing existing new CCD owners with assurance their existing camera will be supported, but at the expense of trashing its resale value, in my case by 70% for a mint low-use edition. You might say every one of us will pay more than the cost of a sensor replacement in added depreciation, even if our sensors never fail. It's like every one of us have already written the check for a sensor replacement.

 

Doesn't sound like a good business model to me, trashing the investment by every buyer of their product. That's compounding the mess, not cleaning it up....if true. I guess I'll find out for sure in the next week or so.

[otto.f]

Where dealers are not separately informed by Leica, I would stick to their statement to you here as a LUF-member

[DigitalHeMan]

6. Make the upgrade from the M9 immediate, even if the sensor is working.

 

 

It has been said elsewhere already, but there is no point in replacing the sensor until/unless Leica has a permanent fix available. If it ain't broke, don't fix it....

[jaapv]

You are well advised to discount this story.

I sure hope you're right about that.

 

But if the story I got from my local dealer is accurate though - only original owners will be eligible for the sensor replacement - Leica has blown up the Leica value model, providing existing new CCD owners with assurance their existing camera will be supported, but at the expense of trashing its resale value, in my case by 70% for a mint low-use edition. You might say every one of us will pay more than the cost of a sensor replacement in added depreciation, even if our sensors never fail. It's like every one of us have already written the check for a sensor replacement.

 

Doesn't sound like a good business model to me, trashing the investment by every buyer of their product. That's compounding the mess, not cleaning it up....if true. I guess I'll find out for sure in the next week or so.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[otto.f]

It has been said elsewhere already, but there is no point in replacing the sensor until/unless Leica has a permanent fix available. If it ain't broke, don't fix it....

 

Besides, Raid Amin's point 5 and 6 form a paradox, unless you are merely in it for the money ( which is unwise with digital anyway)

[Berth]

I was pointing out in a roundabout way that it is not about things going pearshaped -they will do so despite all efforts- it is the way the company handles the resulting mess. And Leica, after a false start, came through.

 

I sure hope you're right about that.

 

But if the story I got from my local dealer is accurate though - only original owners will be eligible for the sensor replacement - Leica has blown up the Leica value model, providing existing new CCD owners with assurance their existing camera will be supported, but at the expense of trashing its resale value, in my case by 70% for a mint low-use edition. You might say every one of us will pay more than the cost of a sensor replacement in added depreciation, even if our sensors never fail. It's like every one of us have already written the check for a sensor replacement.

 

Doesn't sound like a good business model to me, trashing the investment by every buyer of their product. That's compounding the mess, not cleaning it up....if true. I guess I'll find out for sure in the next week or so.

 

You are well advised to discount this story.

 

I have not heard anything from Leica to correct the policy conveyed to me by their official dealer here in Oregon, Leica is limiting gratis sensor replacements to original owners. It is the holidays, and customer service is apparently shut down, so it's unlikely I'll get a correction, or confirmation, until next week. When I do I'll post it here.