Not 100% convinced the MM gives better B&W images than say a M240/Nikon

[sm23221]

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I find the tonal range to be greater than with other cameras.  Because it only produces non-color files, I only concentrate on BW without distractions.  It's the best camera I've ever used, especially coupled with the APO 50. 

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

, especially coupled with the APO 50. 

Don't have one of those

[jaapv]

Don't have one of those

So just buy one...

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

So just buy one...

Jaap

Shooting more studio work just now with Nikon gear

Going to be shooting Sony a7ii for street/travel photography so no need for one right now but we all know that can change as and when new stuff comes out

[ThePioneer]

There are many people who cannot understand why anyone would choose the Monochrom.

 

Just as there are many more who could never understand why someone would actually buy a Leica.

 

Even as there are many, many more people who will never comprehend why someone whould still choose to use film.

 

Fortunately there are a few who do.

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

 

 

Fortunately there are a few who do.

Do what

[platypus]

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I find the tonal range to be greater than with other cameras.  Because it only produces non-color files, I only concentrate on BW without distractions.  It's the best camera I've ever used, especially coupled with the APO 50. 

 

I agree with all of that, especially regarding the APO 50...but I don't think acquiring that lens would solve this particular problem.

[MarkP]

I agree with all of that, especially regarding the APO 50...but I don't think acquiring that lens would solve this particular problem.

I think you're right - Neil has certainly had the Monochrom long enough to see whether it suits him irrespective of lens.

 

The Monochrom files are almost always dead flat out of camera (especially with lower contrast lenses which further exacerbate this) and thus almost always need work.  But I don't think there's a lens that in it's own way doesn't perform fantastically on the Monochrom.

 

I agree with Jaap regarding SEP and almost never use it unless I may want a film emulsion emulation at the end of post processing.

[adan]

I recently took an image where I think the Monochrom (or a Foveon sensor) would have really made a difference - besides the gross differences of higher ISO and longer dynamic range.

 

Posted below is a detail of a shot I made with the M9 and 75 Summarit of an old wooden door. I'll have to make two posts to fit in color and B&W versions of the (tiny) crop area, and still retain the full resolution (I hope) that makes the point.

 

First, the color version.

 

If you down-load this image and play with it in an imaging program that allows you to see the color channels separately, you'll see the image "jump" as you switch between red to blue to green channels. The three channels are in effect three rather different grayscale pictures, layered on top of one another, and with details in slightly different places, just as the r, g, and b pixels are in different places.

 

Viewing all three colors together (full-color image) the same positional variations are rendered as a LOT of color moire rainbows and barber poles in the wood.

 

Even as a B&W picture, it amounts to making a triple exposure without a good tripod - the overlapping details get blurred in places. Especially some "bald spots" in the boards to the right, where the wood grain gets rubbed away, and then returns. The Bayer filtering in the M9 (and the interpretation and cross-talk between pixels inherent in de-Bayering a color original) is smearing the details.

 

Now - I don't take many pictures with just this kind of repeated detailed texture right at the same frequency as the Bayer pixel spacing. So the Monochrom would be a "one picture in 5,000" camera for me.

 

I don't need the difference most of the time - but I can see how the Bayer pattern eats into detail where the Monochrom would not, and where someone working only in B&W anyway, and working in the "utmost fine detail" genre, would be better off just using the Monochrom.

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[adan]

So here's the monochrome (NOT MONOCHROM!) version of the M9 shot - the bald spots are still there, along with other artifacts from the desaturated color moire.

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[250swb]

What I mean is that the MM looks cool (looks cool) with the two lenses that I mentioned above hanging off the front of it.

 

 

Posing pouch syndrome.

 

It only looks cool to you, everybody else wonders what the heck you are doing. A middle aged man in a posing pouch is going to turn heads in the opposite direction just as surely as carrying an 'old' looking camera with a tiny lens.

 

Steve

[jaapv]

Agree. I have a hate-love relationship with the inevitable old camera comments. I always just show the back and say " two years".

[Lenshacker]

I think the problem could be solved by buying a few filters.

 

L1003064 by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

 

1950s Nikkor-H 5cm F2 at F4, LTM mount. Red filter.

 

 

 

 

Marine Museum by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

 

1936 Uncoated Zeiss Sonnar 5cm F1.5. Orange filter. Straight exports to JPEG using LR. These just don't look flat to me.

[Lenshacker]

 

 

It only looks cool to you, everybody else wonders what the heck you are doing. A middle aged man in a posing pouch is going to turn heads in the opposite direction just as surely as carrying an 'old' looking camera with a tiny lens.

 

Steve

Two years ago we were on Vacation when one of the trainers noticed my M9 and came up to ask about it. Turns out she was studying photography and taking a course on film, had just bought a film SLR. Then she asked my daughter if she would like to be the Volunteer to help with the show. I got her address and sent her a box of gear and film that i was no longer using. 

[Lenshacker]

Just to demonstrate Contrast enhancing filters on the Monochrom:

 

Pilot's Day 2014, Udvar Hazy by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

 

C-Sonnar 50/1.5 at F4, with Orange filter.

============================================================================

 

Pilot-s Day 2014, Nikon Df by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

 

Nikon Df with 20/3.5 Nikkor-UD at F5.6.

 

Both straight exports to Jpeg using LR4.

 

Without the Orange filter, anything Blue would be much brighter. The problem is your eyes do not see Blue with the same efficiency as it does Green. A Yellow filter brings the response of panchromatic film to about the same as your eyes, the M Monochrom- a Y52 is probably optimal for matching response with the eye, Orange and Red- enhance the contrast compared to what you see.

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Hay lensshacker.

The Y52 filter you are talking about ........is the 52 the filter size or a number for the color. I take it Y is for yellow right??

Maybe I should try a filter or two on my MM and see if that will change my mind

Later

[jaapv]

You don’t use filters?    

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

You don’t use filters?    

Correct,

I have used ND filters when shooting wide open with the Noctilux but never used any other form of filter. But since lensshaker has offered some advice rather than sarcastic comments then I will try some out once he answers my previous reply about the yellow filters

[Jeff S]

Post #16, already 'thanked'.  Pretty good clues.

 

Jeff

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[250swb]

Filters are to finesse the product, not alter it fundamentally, you still need post processing skills for instance. But as you have a 'Fine Art' web site going to the extreme in finessing a product should be second nature, otherwise it's just 'art' with a small 'a' isn't it?

 

Steve