FlashGordonPhotography Posted March 30, 2015 Share #21 Posted March 30, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) My background is Nikon SLRs, and I had a brief flirtation with a Nikon D800E and long lenses, and the Sony A7r - dead end for me. The thing is, once I got my head around the 21-90 range of lenses, fine primes and a rangefinder, I just had zero interest in huge, heavy, complex alternatives. The simplicity of an M camera, a prime and a spare in your pocket is just a joy. I take more pictures, and frankly an M camera is so much more unobtrusive than the alternatives. People look, ask and don't feel even remotely threatened. Cheers John How's that going to help the OP in Africa? 90mm lens???? 300mm is a starting point in the bigger game parks of East Africa. I adore my M's as much as anyone on this forum but a rangefinder is the wrong tool for the job in long range wildlife photography. Sure you can "enjoy the challenge" of Leicas limited live view implementation and some of the available lenses are spectacular but for me, I'd be adding either a FF AF camera and a 150-600 or an APSC body and a 80-400 for Africa. No it isn't a Leica but unless you're Jaap it's far easier and less frustrating than an old MF tele and an M. I do agree that up to 90mm the M system is hard to beat. I'd just supplement that with the super long zoom for the wildlife component and the M for the rest. I have an a6000 and 80-400 Sony I use on occasion and it's a fantastic combination for its intended use. Plus with an M adaptor the a6000 make a nice M compliment. Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 Hi FlashGordonPhotography, Take a look here Can Never Go Back to DSLR. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted March 30, 2015 Share #22 Posted March 30, 2015 I have a Leica book dating back to the seventies which clearly states that a knowledgeable photographer will use both a Rangefinder and an SLR system and will know when to use each. I think that rather nose-in-the-air remark still holds true in general, despite the M with its EVF blurring the distinction. Having said that, my DMR hasn't been used since I got an M. I think the distinction between manual- and autofocus is considerably more relevant. To my mind, I'm justified by the results of insisting on manual focus, but YMMV, of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornnb Posted March 31, 2015 Share #23 Posted March 31, 2015 I have a Leica book dating back to the seventies which clearly states that a knowledgeable photographer will use both a Rangefinder and an SLR system and will know when to use each. I think that rather nose-in-the-air remark still holds true in general, despite the M with its EVF blurring the distinction. It holds true even more today. Autofocus. You don't want to shoot a rugby match with a manual lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted March 31, 2015 Share #24 Posted March 31, 2015 A person who is abandoning DSLR and autofocus, in particular to commit to range finder camera has declared he is not a general professional photographer, for better or worst. I take such a decloration as from one not invested in success. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted March 31, 2015 Share #25 Posted March 31, 2015 Very happy not to be a "general professional photographer" ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manoleica Posted March 31, 2015 Share #26 Posted March 31, 2015 If your work and ability are within the scope of the Leica M then we are all happy. I for one will never limit myself either to RF's or DSLR's & if a P&S is called for so be it.. In my early years in and around Fleet St, the motto was "Always bring Home the Bacon" - always use the best for the job, thereafter the camera you have with you... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted March 31, 2015 Share #27 Posted March 31, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) A person who is abandoning DSLR and autofocus, in particular to commit to range finder camera has declared he is not a general professional photographer, for better or worst. I take such a decloration as from one not invested in success. Seems to me that would depend entirely on what kind of photography a person specialized in. Not everyone wants or needs to shoot sports. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamey Posted March 31, 2015 Share #28 Posted March 31, 2015 Over much of the past year I've been shooting with a Telyt-R 280mm f/4 on my M240 in preparation for a planned trip to Africa. It's been an incredibly difficult learning curve to get up to speed with the EVF, focus peaking and this lens. Many friends have been telling me I'm crazy to even try and suggest getting a Nikon D810 or the new Canon 5DSR with fast lenses that autofocus, or even step down to one of the better DX-level DSLR cameras for the crop factor and high speed shutters. I've been reading a good deal about the latest generations of these cameras and today finally got a chance to put my hands on them. OMG, I'd forgotten how big these cameras are - I felt foolish even holding them. There is no way I can return to this kind of camera, even though they may have their "better" applications. After six years now of using the Leica M9 and then the M240, I'm so completely adapted to them that it would be all but impossible for this 62-year old to go back to using a DSLR. Anyone else have similar experiences? I'm just going to have to double down on the time I spend getting better and faster with the 280mm, which produces delicious results when nailing the shot. Well David, I will give you my opinion after all it's free. The M240 is a lovely Camera for wildlife, having a quite shutter certainly want upset the animals as long as you use it in the ZOO. However in the real world, there is only one beast to capture the wildlife and thats the SLR/DSLR and the BIG Lenses with AF and IS, simply no comromise. Check out the wildlife magazines and you will see what I mean. Good luck on your trip. Ken. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted March 31, 2015 Share #29 Posted March 31, 2015 How's that going to help the OP in Africa? 90mm lens???? 300mm is a starting point in the bigger game parks of East Africa. I adore my M's as much as anyone on this forum but a rangefinder is the wrong tool for the job in long range wildlife photography. Sure you can "enjoy the challenge" of Leicas limited live view implementation and some of the available lenses are spectacular but for me, I'd be adding either a FF AF camera and a 150-600 or an APSC body and a 80-400 for Africa. No it isn't a Leica but unless you're Jaap it's far easier and less frustrating than an old MF tele and an M. I do agree that up to 90mm the M system is hard to beat. I'd just supplement that with the super long zoom for the wildlife component and the M for the rest. I have an a6000 and 80-400 Sony I use on occasion and it's a fantastic combination for its intended use. Plus with an M adaptor the a6000 make a nice M compliment. Gordon Sorry, Gordon. Missed this, and somehow the OP's comment. When i was last in Africa, the longest lens I had was 180mm. Suited me just fine. But then, I'm not really into long telephoto of game. I guess if I was going on such a trip I'd buy or rent a D810 and 80-400 zoom. I have to admit to very limited interst in this sort of photography. I guess that does help either, but this is a Leica forum ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 31, 2015 Share #30 Posted March 31, 2015 A person who is abandoning DSLR and autofocus, in particular to commit to range finder camera has declared he is not a general professional photographer, for better or worst. I take such a decloration as from one not invested in success. Wouldn't it depend on the type of photography that that person is committed to? Not to mention personal inclination... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 31, 2015 Share #31 Posted March 31, 2015 Well David, I will give you my opinion after all it's free. The M240 is a lovely Camera for wildlife, having a quite shutter certainly want upset the animals as long as you use it in the ZOO. However in the real world, there is only one beast to capture the wildlife and thats the SLR/DSLR and the BIG Lenses with AF and IS, simply no comromise. Check out the wildlife magazines and you will see what I mean. Good luck on your trip. Ken. It rather depends on one's aims in wildlife photography, and more importantly on one's bush skills. There are some highly successful mid-format wildlife photographers for instance. However for commercial/magazine/tourist work a big DSLR with a huge lens is certainly the easiest way to get there with a minimum of effort. It will not always get one the shot that one aspires to, though. Autofocus is a fickle technique. There are certainly compromises and choices for the individual photographer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornnb Posted March 31, 2015 Share #32 Posted March 31, 2015 I go for the 5D Mark III whenever I need to use a lens longer than 75mm, or need to do handheld night shooting (high iso performance). Otherwise, the Leica M generally does a better job. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLS Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share #33 Posted March 31, 2015 Thank you for all the responses; they certainly reflect a range of opinions. As I’ve discussed this trip with friends and here on the forum, I find it interesting that most assume such a trip to Africa would be about safari or wildlife photography. And yes, that’s definitely going to be part of it, but I am equally interested in the people and the land itself. At the risk of coming off as an idiot, I want to say that what I am personally after is to “capture” the element that caught my attention in the first place. I have found this is not as easy as it sounds since I am not always immediately aware of just what it was that made me turn my head. For me, it’s a process to become quiet and aware, and then to try to photograph it. In that sense, I think of photography as art. Pico, I just have to take the bait. I am not, nor will I ever aspire to be a “professional” photographer. I have nothing against selling the results of my work and am always flattered when someone asks, but I can think of nothing more onerous than to work within the confines of commerce, be it weddings or advertising, or journalism. The equipment I use is a means to an end, not the end itself. Picking up a state of the art DSLR after six years of using nothing but a Leica M was jarring. It just felt huge and self-important. Not only did it scream to me, “look at me,” but it also seemed to whisper, “I take the photograph, not you.” The Leica M has brought me closer than ever to looking at the result and thinking, “yes, that’s what I saw.” I could be wrong but I am aspiring to be as conscious of the moment and unconscious of the tools I’m using as possible. It’s not always fun, I’m obsessed with it, and I have no choice. What once was just an interest has become something I do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torontoamateur Posted March 31, 2015 Share #34 Posted March 31, 2015 What a joke! Diversity is fun! I use Leica M240, nikon d800e, hasselblads, 8x10 sinair and Arca Swiss. Each has a use. Oh! and film leica and film Nikons too. Why limit yourself? Unless you have a physical infirmity or some kind of self imposed limitation there is no reason to limit your ability to capture the moment. I now have suited up in my flame proof overalls and await the conflagration. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceVentura1986 Posted March 31, 2015 Share #35 Posted March 31, 2015 I have an ME mated w a 50 Summicron lens that is my regular camera. I take it mostly everywhere and have really grown accustomed to the size and feel of the camera and the rangefinder experience. However, I also own a stable of Canon gear including most recently the 6D. I shoot this when it is the better tool for the job, ie, high ISO, precise framing, studio strobes, etc. For me, I pick the right tool for the job. As the Brits say across the pond, horses for courses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted March 31, 2015 Share #36 Posted March 31, 2015 It seems to me there's another option not yet brought into this discussion. Since the OP has stated he is not a professional and not looking to sell his work, why not consider a lightweight, inexpensive alternative like the VL (114) with its 25-400mm zoom range? I often use one when I want to travel light and the results are quite good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Lowe Posted March 31, 2015 Share #37 Posted March 31, 2015 A person who is abandoning DSLR and autofocus, in particular to commit to range finder camera has declared he is not a general professional photographer, for better or worst. I take such a decloration as from one not invested in success. You have a very malformed definition of "professional photographer", then. There are pros who have absolutely no need for autofocus. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinAK Posted March 31, 2015 Share #38 Posted March 31, 2015 Firstly, though I like the result "when I nail the focus" on the M240, I find the "learning curve" very steep; I'm pretty experienced but I find getting the focus dead on is NOT easy and a lot of shots that looked great get rejected. For certain types of photography (like a Safari that I'm planning) one can't beat a DSLR - you don't have time to screw around with focus usually and you need "reach" which generally means ~400mm. Thus a DSLR is indispensable for certain types of work and certainly for any action. The weight, lenses, equipment of course is a huge pain! Lastly, the dirt on the Leica sensor is a real problem! I've learnt advanced cleaning techniques but to spend 10 minutes per decent picture pressing "Q" in LR 40 odd times is a little annoying. Just sayin' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 31, 2015 Share #39 Posted March 31, 2015 For certain types of photography (like a Safari that I'm planning) one can't beat a DSLR - you don't have time to screw around with focus usually and you need "reach" which generally means ~400mm. How profoundly true.... M240, Vario-Elmar 105-280 and 1.4x apoextender @ 400 mm. available time .. next to nothing - wild Zebras turn and move off when approached. Lucky shot? Not really, I have hundreds if not thousands of good quality Safari shots over the years - mostly using Leica - most Canon shots I have did not Autofocus where I wanted the camera to focus... Here the stripes would have confused the Autofocus and I needed the eyelashes. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/242912-can-never-go-back-to-dslr/?do=findComment&comment=2790475'>More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted March 31, 2015 Share #40 Posted March 31, 2015 The only "safari" I've ever been on (or likely to) was at the wild animal park owned by the San Diego zoo. My preference for a dSLR over the M is that I find reflex viewing and focusing more to my liking than the current state of the art in EVF's (and the M240's is not state of the art), and the M240's lag time is quite long. I also happen to find IS helpful especially after I've been shooting a while and my muscles are starting to fatigue. AF not so much. My feeling is AF is most effective with large-in-the-frame subjects heading toward the camera (it was after all designed primarily with sports and fashion photography in mind). My experience is that with paper-thin DOF, trying to get a single eye in focus at some distance using AF is hit or miss, especially if the subject is moving unpredictably. Doubtful it will ever be perfected to that extent. Basically, the skill and experience of the photographer is still the mitigating factor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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