Summicron 50 APO Disapointing?

[jrp]

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To me, it's the size of Leica lenses and the fact that they work well with Leica's full frame bodies that makes them unique.

 

Yes, I use Nikons when I need to get a particular shot (auto focus, long lenses, tilt & shift, low noise or higher resolution sensor, precise framing). The Sony mirrorless cameras have better technology than Leica, but the lens range is still limited and, where they are extending it, bulkier and heavier than Leica's. If I want to travel light, there is currently no alternative to Leica. I have no objection to using Leica or Voigtlander lenses, although they are bigger, in general, and lens correction is harder to automate.

 

The APO Summicron is a great lens for producing clean images. As someone, elsewhere, pointed out, it's as if they are produced on extremely fine sandpaper, whereas other lenses have a courser sandpaper overlay.

[algrove]

IMHO, if a person basically posts to the internet, get a Leica C and be done with it. How can anyone in their right mind say that 72 sized internet images disappoint. Get real!

 

Now then if you print and know how to PP for large prints then it has merit. However, if you print 13x19 and the occasional 20x30, it is not necessary to own one.

 

If you brag about your gear then you need one. I wish I had one for every digital M body I own. Wait a minute-I used to! Oh gosh, that means I had three in the house at the same time! See what I mean about bragging. It's stupid. Who cares what you own. Just get out there and use it or rent it first as suggested.

 

One of my first APO50 shots hand held after 3 strong beers. Wish I had brought a tripod with me so I could print this 6meters x 7meters, but I am stuck with 17x22 for now until I can get those clouds to position themselves just like that again and then darken up for me.

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

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P.S. When you see a 17x22 print of this, it looks like a painting.

[~lumiere]

Hi Everyone,

 

Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts on my posting. I appreciate the different perspectives. I am not an experienced photographer --as you can tell from my posting. I just love photography both as an art form and as a way to capture moments that I know will escape from memory and that I would like to preserve. I have not printed much --for multiple reasons-- but I'll take your remarks into consideration and will be more cautious when evaluating a lens based on images posted online....I decided to give the lens a try and ordered a copy. I can't wait to use it.

 

Best,

[CheshireCat]

Please let us know how you like it.

[~lumiere]

Thank you. I will let you know what my impressions are after I use it.

 

One last question: I would like to see the performance of the lens (based on my use of if) on printed images. I am wondering if you have some recommendations for printing services or any other relevant information on printing. What has worked best for you?

 

Best

[algrove]

Thank you. I will let you know what my impressions are after I use it.

 

One last question: I would like to see the performance of the lens (based on my use of if) on printed images. I am wondering if you have some recommendations for printing services or any other relevant information on printing. What has worked best for you?

 

Best

 

Many will recommend you start to learn either LR or PS and get into printing your own images since most average printing services do not do as well as yoiu can with a little education and practice. For example the Epson R3000 was recently on sale for around $550 if my memory serves me correctly. It can print 13" x19" prints wonderfully.

 

To me the term "printing" means taking my image into some software, manipulating it (all RAW have to be processed and this is where the going can get very rough for a beginner), deciding on printer output and then finally the actual act of putting the sheet of paper into the printer and Voila, your very own masterpiece. I am cutting some corners, but to me that is basic printing.

 

I am not an old hand at digital processing as some are here (and my learning curve is still very steep), but to me if I do not print the image I have not completed the artistic circle from capture to final print.

 

Also to me, letting someone else print your work is like giving them the paint brush to take your originsl drawing into its final form. Sacrilege!

 

Just some food for thought.

[k-hawinkler]

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Well, one can actually do all the work except sticking in the paper and printing.

Some printing services let you download their printing software that they use on an actual printer.

Then one can send them the file to be executed on that specific printer.

That way one can use a really expensive high volume printer without the capital expense.

I have used such a service for up to 20"x30".

The print will then be delivered by a carrier a few days later.

[batmobile]

Printing at home allows you to tweak and do tests, therefore getting to the final print much quicker (if its one that needs tweaking), but I too use the profiled remote services and they are excellent, once you are dialled in.

 

Well, one can actually do all the work except sticking in the paper and printing.

Some printing services let you download their printing software that they use on an actual printer.

Then one can send them the file to be executed on that specific printer.

That way one can use a really expensive high volume printer without the capital expense.

I have used such a service for up to 20"x30".

The print will then be delivered by a carrier a few days later.

[jedi996sps]

The cost of an Epson A3/A2 printer is so much less a factor than the cost of the camera equipment and lens. Nothing beats taking an image, processing it and then the anticipation in the first few seconds as the image slowly reveals itself from the printer, and then, finally, mounting and displaying it. And, like with photography, the more you use it, the easier and better it gets. Get one, you will not be disappointed.

[jaapv]

True, and especially with the Monochrom it can be very satisfying, I have learned to like to print. However, I find that a Lambda print on Baryta is incredibly good.

[microview]

the Epson R3000 was recently on sale for around $550 if my memory serves me correctly. It can print 13" x19" prints wonderfully.

Just some food for thought.

 

Epson introduced a replacement model late last autumn, the SureColor P600, which is well reviewed (see northlight-images.co.uk). It costs hardly more than the R3000.

[Winedemonium]

Well to hit a note of reality, he not nearly as much of an actual photographer as he is a blogger. If he did not have his web hero presence, I doubt anyone would know who he is.

 

There are much, *much* better examples of great photography done by actual income earning pros who also put out a good blog piece once and awhile.

 

Well,, first of all Ming Thein *is* a professional photographer. Thats how he earns his living - photography: assignments, teaching, print sales.

 

Secondly, have you seen his work? I'm not talking about online. His Ultraprints are truly special, distinctive in style, and of exceptional quality. I have bought several and I think they are worth every penny.

 

Which brings us back nicely to the OP's question. You can't tell enough about the resolution, artefacts and rendering of a lens by looking at images online - as useful a place to start as it is. Online images these days convey what, 1% - 2% of an image file?

 

I would suggest renting the APO and comparing large prints to sample shots taken with comparable lenses. Only in the final output will you likely see what you want to discover.

 

I have, and use both the APO and the Lux and I like both. But horses for courses.

[algrove]

Well,, first of all Ming Thein *is* a professional photographer. Thats how he earns his living - photography: assignments, teaching, print sales.

 

Secondly, have you seen his work? I'm not talking about online. His Ultraprints are truly special, distinctive in style, and of exceptional quality. I have bought several and I think they are worth every penny.

 

Which brings us back nicely to the OP's question. You can't tell enough about the resolution, artefacts and rendering of a lens by looking at images online - as useful a place to start as it is. Online images these days convey what, 1% - 2% of an image file?

 

I would suggest renting the APO and comparing large prints to sample shots taken with comparable lenses. Only in the final output will you likely see what you want to discover.

 

I have, and use both the APO and the Lux and I like both. But horses for courses.

 

I understood that Ming Thein used the Pentax 645Z PP'd files for those Ultaprints. True?

[NB23]

Well,, first of all Ming Thein *is* a professional photographer. Thats how he earns his living - photography: assignments, teaching, print sales.

 

Secondly, have you seen his work? I'm not talking about online. His Ultraprints are truly special, distinctive in style, and of exceptional quality. I have bought several and I think they are worth every penny.

 

Which brings us back nicely to the OP's question. You can't tell enough about the resolution, artefacts and rendering of a lens by looking at images online - as useful a place to start as it is. Online images these days convey what, 1% - 2% of an image file?

 

I would suggest renting the APO and comparing large prints to sample shots taken with comparable lenses. Only in the final output will you likely see what you want to discover.

 

I have, and use both the APO and the Lux and I like both. But horses for courses.

 

I'm still with Dan on this. Without his blog, nothing at all.

 

The guy teaches how to make "outstanding images". Who falls for that??

 

You purchased a few of his prints? Whooaah, why did you do that? You hang them on your wall? May I ask why?

[Winedemonium]

I understood that Ming Thein used the Pentax 645Z PP'd files for those Ultaprints. True?

 

Some are made with the 645Z, some are made with the Nikon D800E and D810 with Otus lenses. The key, from his perspective, to his Ultraprints is that a minimum level of resolution and acutance is achieved to have his print master, Wesley Wong, translate the image into the print quality required.

 

I'm still with Dan on this. Without his blog, nothing at all.

 

The guy teaches how to make "outstanding images". Who falls for that??

 

You purchased a few of his prints? Whooaah, why did you do that? You hang them on your wall? May I ask why?

 

The people who keep his diary full with commissioned commercial work would disagree, as would his students (video purchases, one-to-one photography 'school', and workshop customers), as well as the customers who have bought his prints.

 

It is fair to say he would not reach almost any of these customers without his blog. But it is not also true that few professionals would reach their customer base without some way to promote their business? And if you are based in a different country to a key part of your audience, all the more so I think.

 

I fell, and continue to fall for it. I am one of his students. I'm not trying to copy his work, and neither do I believe that 'outstanding images' can be made without the photographer's own vision and other essential ingredients. But neither does he. What he teaches is pretty classic discipline. It's "101" stuff, though it is up to date, and critically for me, it's tutored. A lot could perhaps be gleaned by reading text books, and, say, Ansel Adams' three volumes. But there is no feedback in that. The value in the 'school' is that as a student, I have to submit assignments, and I get videos back critiquing my work in specific ways. I do think my photography is improving as a result.

 

It would not be every amateur photographer's approach. But why should it be?

 

I bought some of his prints because I like the images, because I think he has talent as a photographic artist, and because they are of extremely high quality. (I buy works by other contemporary photographic artists when I like the works, and because it supports the artists).

 

Have you seen Ming Thein's Ultraprints? (I mean, an actual print, not the images online?) I'm not suggesting they are to everyone's taste (whose are?), but I think most people seeing them would agree that they are of exceptional quality.

[NB23]

Some are made with the 645Z, some are made with the Nikon D800E and D810 with Otus lenses. The key, from his perspective, to his Ultraprints is that a minimum level of resolution and acutance is achieved to have his print master, Wesley Wong, translate the image into the print quality required.

 

 

 

The people who keep his diary full with commissioned commercial work would disagree, as would his students (video purchases, one-to-one photography 'school', and workshop customers), as well as the customers who have bought his prints.

 

It is fair to say he would not reach almost any of these customers without his blog. But it is not also true that few professionals would reach their customer base without some way to promote their business? And if you are based in a different country to a key part of your audience, all the more so I think.

 

I fell, and continue to fall for it. I am one of his students. I'm not trying to copy his work, and neither do I believe that 'outstanding images' can be made without the photographer's own vision and other essential ingredients. But neither does he. What he teaches is pretty classic discipline. It's "101" stuff, though it is up to date, and critically for me, it's tutored. A lot could perhaps be gleaned by reading text books, and, say, Ansel Adams' three volumes. But there is no feedback in that. The value in the 'school' is that as a student, I have to submit assignments, and I get videos back critiquing my work in specific ways. I do think my photography is improving as a result.

 

It would not be every amateur photographer's approach. But why should it be?

 

I bought some of his prints because I like the images, because I think he has talent as a photographic artist, and because they are of extremely high quality. (I buy works by other contemporary photographic artists when I like the works, and because it supports the artists).

 

Have you seen Ming Thein's Ultraprints? (I mean, an actual print, not the images online?) I'm not suggesting they are to everyone's taste (whose are?), but I think most people seeing them would agree that they are of exceptional quality.

 

Ming who?

 

No, really, no interest at all. He's probably a ok guy, nothing personal. Are you him, by any chance?

[batmobile]

You seem to have a particular beef against Ming and one can only imagine that it is because you resent his profile and 'success', even if you dislike his work. Even here, where a person explains why they respect him, you feel compelled to dismiss everything that has been said as worthless. Your last sentence attempts to demean winedemonium along the way. Just how envious are you?

 

Personally, I do not like Ming's work - its not my thing - but you see how easy that is to say without the outright and relentless assassination of the man and dismissal of anyone who attempts to explain why they respect him? I can understand the need to destroy him, though. The world is unfair. You've been robbed of success by people like him, who undeservedly have the world's eye..[/i]).

 

Ming who?

 

No, really, no interest at all. He's probably a ok guy, nothing personal. Are you him, by any chance?

[wattsy]

Yes, a number of the posts in this thread do some motivated by envy and resentment. I'm not interested in the photographic genres that Ming Thein inhabits but he seems to do what he does well and his blog can be interesting (and is also well written). If half of what is written on his "about me" page is true then he is clearly a bright fellow with an impressive track record. Good luck to him – it's no skin off my nose that people want to buy his prints and attend his workshops.

[Winedemonium]

Photography is a hobby for me, something that provides a release for some creative urges. As an amateur with a full time career, family, and other commitments to fill my time, my time for photography is something of a luxury. It's a personal indulgence within a life filled with other commitments.

 

I get pleasure from learning about it and read widely. Like many people I found Ming's blog searching on Google for a specific product (in this case the 35mm Summilux FLE which he wrote on extensively a couple of years ago). But the happy accident was discovering that he was also writing extensively on a wide range of photographic subjects, including philosophical questions. The same thing happened earlier this year when I was looking for a review of the Leica M-A. I found Gregory Simpson's 'Ultrasomething' photography blog. It's brilliant. The photographic approach he has settled upon is almost the antithesis of Ming Thein's, and I really appreciate it. I know I would enjoy a large print of Gregory's 'Appropriating Cortini' from his latest blog entry as much as Ming Thein's Ultraprints, despite it being in a very different style.

 

In my bookcase, there are about 60 books on photography - all but one (Stroebel's View Camera Technique 7th Edn.) are about specific photographers' works. I like a diverse range of works.

 

Moriyama isn't my cup of tea, but I very much respect Jonathan van Smit, who shares Moriyama's grittiness and high contrast black and white aesthetic to an extent, as a well as 'underworld' subjects. (There is a superb interview with van Smit on batmobile's website, which I'd recommend to anyone here). I think van Smit was the first photographer I 'found' on Flickr, and have often wondered about him and his inspirations.

 

Why mention all this? Well, I was a bit taken aback by NB23's first line of questioning addressed to me in this thread. I suspected it might be a bit, shall we say, 'pointed', but took the questions at face value and attempted to respond to them sincerely. Sadly I think NB23's second response confirmed my first suspension. I was going to respond and then decided not to, a bit dispirited.

 

After all, this is my hobby, and it occupies those rare few hours each week I have to indulge in my hobby. I'm sure this is true of most participants here.

 

I like this forum. I like to share things I've learned here (with no special claim to superior knowledge on any subject - just my own first hand experiences in photography and with some relevant Leica products), and I have learned far more from others here than I feel I have been able to share in return. I'm grateful to L Camera Forum participants for what I have learned here.

 

But posts like that leave me wondering if it is worth it. They diminish the pleasure I find here.

 

 

Back to the OP's question. My suggestion from my own experience is that making some large prints of similar subjects with the APO-50 and with an alternative lens will give you the answer you want. Can you get access to the lens to use where you live, or via mail-order rental? Alternatively, getting hold of a selection of unedited full size DNG files may help.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[algrove]

I get on this site to hopefully help where I can, but moreover learn from others experiences.

 

This thread now has me wishing I would not have read it at all and for sure wishing I had not followed it.