Doc Henry Posted March 8, 2015 Share #61 Posted March 8, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) So to update the story about the camera/lens non focus issues.. I used the 50mm 1.4, then 35mm 1.4 then 90mm f2. All latest lenses. I shot the targe (using the largest zero) t at the mininum focus distance, then 1m, 1.5m and 2m at the widest aperture using self timer and tripod. If you click not the picture - you can see the settings detailed. satureyes photography | More Leica Tests Rick, really annoying problems. Question : the 50 was purchased new ? had Shocks? From the images , the 35 mm also has a (little) problem with RF IMO The 90 Cron is OK. Personally, I have never had a problem of this nature with my M8, M9 and M7 and with my lenses (7 with 35 and 50 LA) Best Henry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 Hi Doc Henry, Take a look here Unlucky or poor quality control. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
BerndReini Posted March 8, 2015 Share #62 Posted March 8, 2015 A couple of weeks ago I had the unenviable task of explaining to my client why all their shots were completely out of focus. Now over the last week or so it's tramspired that it was a combination of the M240 being completely out of alighment- and now after these basic tests - seems that the lens was too. Together it was a lethal recipe for a screwed up job and much humble pie eating with my client. No, I completely understand this part. I just think that this experience has made you somewhat paranoid. I think we have now figured out that your 50 lux is out of alignment because I absolutely do not think that unless there is something wrong with your lens to begin with you could try three different cameras at a store and they would all be off. I have seen Leicas that are out of alignment from the factory, but the last seven cameras I have used (an MM demo, an M240 demo, my friend's MM, another friend's M240, and another friend's M240) were all spot on with my 50 lux. It is just not true that Leica is that sloppy and their rangefinder isn't that accurate. Have faith in Leica. I am sure once you get your 50 lux fixed you can trust your M240. In contrast to the M9, I also find it very easy to confirm focus quickly on the LCD after a few shots. Here is a shot I took with my lux on my friend's Monochrom without ever doing any testing or calibration. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/241956-unlucky-or-poor-quality-control/?do=findComment&comment=2776739'>More sharing options...
satureyes Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share #63 Posted March 8, 2015 Rick, really annoying problems.Question : the 50 was purchased new ? had Shocks? From the images , the 35 mm also has a (little) problem with RF IMO The 90 Cron is OK. Personally, I have never had a problem of this nature with my M8, M9 and M7 and with my lenses (7 with 35 and 50 LA) Best Henry The lens was from new. It's the chrome version- not sure that is relevant though? No shocks nothing. Always looked after and or a mark on the lens from any possible dinks etc. What problem do you see in the 35? The only issue is that the JPEGS get distorted because I'm cropping in so much at 2m that they look OOF. Personally I can't see any difference - if anything the RF shots look slightly sharper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
satureyes Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share #64 Posted March 8, 2015 Did you tell him that you chose to use a camera you had not tested or even used casually? That one is on you.. Of course I've used the camera - casually and otherwise. It had also been re aligned and te calibrated recently. There was an actual fault with the camera. Please read the previous posts. The camera and lens were out so the focus issue was compounded. Do you test you rf every time you pick up the camera? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted March 8, 2015 Share #65 Posted March 8, 2015 The lens was from new. It's the chrome version- not sure that is relevant though?No shocks nothing. Always looked after and or a mark on the lens from any possible dinks etc. What problem do you see in the 35? The only issue is that the JPEGS get distorted because I'm cropping in so much at 2m that they look OOF. Personally I can't see any difference - if anything the RF shots look slightly sharper. I was wrong for the 35 mm and I just tested on my 35 LA and with RF of M8 + tripod. Similar with you at 1.4 at 1 m and 2 m. Sorry ! Thanks for your reply Best Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted March 8, 2015 Share #66 Posted March 8, 2015 So.. any comments? Please try and indulge me- this is really giving me a headache. Just two comments if you don't mind. First there are indeed QC problems at Wetzlar. The last lens i did the mistake to send them has taken almost one year and three trips to Germany to be calibrated as expected. Secondly, refrain from using rulers to check focus accuracy if you don't want to become paranoid . Remember it is just a rangefinder so check focus accuracy on 3D subjects at short, medium and long distance, it will be enough for you if you're an experienced photographer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
satureyes Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share #67 Posted March 8, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Just two comments if you don't mind. First there are indeed QC problems at Wetzlar. The last lens i did the mistake to send them has taken almost one year and three trips to Germany to be set as expected. Secondly, refrain from using rulers to check focus accuracy if you don't want to become paranoid . Remember it is just a rangefinder so check focus accuracy on 3D subjects at short, medium and long distance, it will be enough for you if you're an experienced photographer. Again. I only did those checks to troubleshoot. I think it's perfectly obvious there's an issue here. I love my Leica gear. Hell I even have the technical diagram of the 35mm as a tattoo on my arm - but these ruler shots were necessary a) because I was driving my family crazy with taking their photo for this test and needed to isolate and identify the problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted March 8, 2015 Share #68 Posted March 8, 2015 I take it that your lens has not been calibrated since you bougth it, right? There is perhaps a hint here. BTW the lens i was referring to above is a 50/1.4 asph as well... Yours won't take that long to be calibrated if need be hopefully. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted March 8, 2015 Share #69 Posted March 8, 2015 Say I've focussed on something using the EVF (tripod mounted etc) then look through the RF. I can see the patches don't match. It's not even close. You 50 lux is off. Nobody should deny their sympathies for what happened on your shoot. I am sure when you get your 50 fixed, you will be happy again. Please keep us posted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
satureyes Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share #70 Posted March 8, 2015 I certainly will - thank you all Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted March 8, 2015 Share #71 Posted March 8, 2015 Of course I've used the camera - casually and otherwise. [... Snip humbler on me... ] Do you test you rf every time you pick up the camera? Since getting the M9 I do. All my cameras from 4x5 to 35mm are viewfinder or rangefinders and the rest are ground glass things. The M9 has never failed, but from the rare bad luck I read here I do check it. Thank you for understanding my original grumpy reply. Permit me to add that shortly after I got the M9 I was involved in a bicycle wreck that totaled the M9 I (and almost me) and Leica NJ rebuilt it to what I believe is better-than-new specifications. Not for free but promptly. I cannot properly praise Leica NJ enough. Very best of luck with your case. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfloyd Posted March 9, 2015 Share #72 Posted March 9, 2015 So I will be brief with the back story. I had a M 240 as new 18months ago. 2 trips to Germany to fix the IR coding window (one they didn't think there was a problem and then it went back for a part to be replaced) Another trip (so this is now 3) to correct the RF which was out of whack Now 6 months later, a paid shoot ruined because the RF was not aligned again so it went to Germain for the 4th time. It was then agreed that I can get an actual replacement M rather than repaid my original one. Amazing right - so yesterday I picked it up after confirmation it had been checked. Take it hope, pop on my 50 lux (in chrome BTW) and shoot some pics. ALL the shots taken with me using the RF our out of focus even though it showed as being 'in' focus.. unless of course I used the EVF. It wasn't massively scientific but I used a tripod, self timer and a calibration chart to make sure the target was the same in each image. Mailed my results over to London tech guy - who agreed there could be a back focus issue. So.. this morning I was back at the Leica store.. where I was handed yet another camera from new. So 2 replacement is 2 days. Guess what? Camera was a lot better BUT still not tack sharp when focussing using a 50mm 'lux UNLESS I used the EVF. I tried the stores own camera - same issue. I also tried my 90mm, and even 28mm- all seemed to display similar traits. So.. I ask you.. Is this 'within tolerance?' It could be that all of my lenses are out.. but the laws of probability tend to make be believe otherwise. Today - in London..at the Leica store I considered my options and whether I can stay with Leica if i can't be guaranteed an image to be bang in focus then I cannot afford to shoot and mess up again. I honestly don't know what to do. It seems that to recreate the issue: 1) be at the minimal focal distance with whatever lens 2) shoot an image thats in focus using the RF 3) shoot an image in focus using the EVF. 4) while you are set up for the RF focus shoot, look through the EVF.. is the EVF view showing in focus then do the other way around.. focus using EVF and then see if the RF patches have become misaligned. So.. any comments? Please try and indulge me- this is really giving me a headache. what shutter speed are you using? Anything under 1/125 of a sec will pick up movement and blurr in many instances. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 9, 2015 Share #73 Posted March 9, 2015 Post #54. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
satureyes Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share #74 Posted March 12, 2015 So today Leica have sent me a loan 50mm Summilux whilst mine is sent off to them. I did do some tests tonight - with the measure at 45 degrees - comparing the EVF to the RF focussing again. This time I'm using the 35mm FLE Summilux. Wide open, tripod, self timer etc.. So.. Am i being TOO critical here - or is there still an issue with the RF accuracy? I have labelled the images but they are (in size order) 0.7m, 1m then 2m RF shot first then EVF. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/241956-unlucky-or-poor-quality-control/?do=findComment&comment=2779551'>More sharing options...
satureyes Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share #75 Posted March 12, 2015 I've just done the same with my 90mm 'cron too.. so RF then EVF at 1m. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/241956-unlucky-or-poor-quality-control/?do=findComment&comment=2779564'>More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 12, 2015 Share #76 Posted March 12, 2015 I don’t know, Rick-maybe too critical - possibly. I doubt that the 35 FLE is a brilliant closeup lens anyway , and the purple fringing does confuse the issue a bit. Will van Manen told me that the 240 using the EVF is more accurate than his 60 cm collimator, which is an unattainable goal for any rangefinder. It is quite possible that this is as good as it gets out of the box. In your place I would do two things: Start taking actual photographs and see if you are happy with the results now, as you can drive yourself quite paranoid with this kind of testing, and, when you have everything together, ask Leica if they will do tolerance matching, which should get you closer to your ideal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
satureyes Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share #77 Posted March 12, 2015 Maybe too critical - possibly. I doubt that the 35 FLE is a brilliant closeup lens anyway , and the purple fringing does confuse the issue a bit. Will van Manen told me that the 240 using the EVF is more accurate than his 60 cm collimator, which is an unattainable goal for ay rangefinder. It is quite possible that this is as good as it gets out of the box. In your place I would do two things: Start taking actual photographs and see if you are happy with the results, as you can drive yourself quite paranoid with this kind of testing, and, when you have everything together, ask Leica if they will do tolerance matching, which should get you closer to your ideal. Leica have agreed to take all my lenses and the camera and match them - BUT.. I don't know whether this is (as you say) too critical and pairing the lenses with the camera will not get it much closer. Sending a brand new camera (from the box) to Wetzlar seems a little extreme - and I wonder if it will actually get much closer, and possibly means that other lenses I may get will also need to be sent in.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 12, 2015 Share #78 Posted March 12, 2015 It is always best to send in the whole kit. Tolerance matching will not throw other lenses out, it just gets everything closer to the system standard. It will certainly not affect other lenses you might add, as everything will still be within tolerance, it is just finetuning. It may be extreme, but it will give you peace of mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
satureyes Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share #79 Posted March 12, 2015 It is always best to send in the whole kit. Tolerance matching will not throw other lenses out, it just gets everything closer to the system standard. It will certainly not affect other lenses you might add, as everything will still be within tolerance, it is just finetuning.It may be extreme, but it will give you peace of mind. I am just wondering now - if I never had the EVF to compare the focus to - would this even be an issue? I really don't want to be peeping - but because of my past bad experience recently I want someone to just tell me that this is normal and I should stop worrying I need a hug. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 12, 2015 Share #80 Posted March 12, 2015 That is exactly what I am telling you, but you have arrived at a point that you need to be sure that everything is as good as it can be. I fully understand your position. I once sold a 90 AA because there was no way i could get it to my standard of sharpness at infinity. In retrospect it was foolish -the lens most probably was fine, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.