jaapv Posted February 27, 2015 Share #141 Posted February 27, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Mind you - I don't know the original. Skin tones are horrendous on any camera. It simply lacks the colour filtering our brain applies when looking at a person. This provides great opportunities for make-up specialists at model shoots, though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 Hi jaapv, Take a look here CCD vs CMOS: Can you tell which is which?{merged}. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Lenshacker Posted February 27, 2015 Share #142 Posted February 27, 2015 I'm tempted to try some of the weaker color correction filters on the next visit to a museum. Do a comparison with auto-white balance and the white balance set to daylight with a CC filter used. I've used FL-D filters with the Monochrom in a Museum before, it made a difference. Balancing the light "back to Daylight equivalent" would better match the sensitivity curve of the sensor. Might be interesting to try a couple of shots each way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyField Posted February 27, 2015 Share #143 Posted February 27, 2015 Jaap: that was a nice cleanup for the red face issue. Here is another technique that I have tried that works reasonably well.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 27, 2015 Share #144 Posted February 27, 2015 It probably will. But I am lazy, and mine is next to no work:) The other thing is, that if you look carefully, the only colour I touched was the skin tones and the red cast of the shirt on the bloke in the background. All other colours are virtually unchanged. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted February 28, 2015 Share #145 Posted February 28, 2015 20 sec PS (PPW Skin desaturation, back to RGB, Red lightness +10, general lightness -7, general saturation -5), and that is just one quick interpretation: Still looks zombified skin to me, just a little more dead. There is no way you can correct IR bleeding without removing/altering also the original visible-light colors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenshacker Posted February 28, 2015 Share #146 Posted February 28, 2015 Never got skin tones like this with the M240. Was an early M9 pic though.http://lctphot.smugmug.com/photos/3900877352_wJTGf3J-D.jpg (7 MB file) I zoomed in on just the white shirt and rotated the Hue until the RGB values were close to white. I moved around, picked a number of "white" pixels. Zoomed back, this is what I got. I do not think this problem was from IR bleed, think it is from the white-balance of the camera being thrown off by the mixed lighting. I've attached LCT's original as well, down-sampled so people can see the issue. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/241543-ccd-vs-cmos-can-you-tell-which-is-whichmerged/?do=findComment&comment=2771944'>More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted February 28, 2015 Share #147 Posted February 28, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Oh my. I'd rather see a red face than a green one. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenshacker Posted February 28, 2015 Share #148 Posted February 28, 2015 Then don't put him under a Fluorescent light, or use an FL-D filter. The point is, the problem is not IR bleed. I have yet to see an actual measurement of IR bleed with the M240. I have the M9 IR bleed characterized. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted February 28, 2015 Share #149 Posted February 28, 2015 De-saturate yellow slightly and shift yellow to slightly more red. Add some saturation to red. It took me 10 seconds in DXO. I do this all of the time on interior architectural and people shots that have mixed lighting. I have "presets" for this. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/241543-ccd-vs-cmos-can-you-tell-which-is-whichmerged/?do=findComment&comment=2771954'>More sharing options...
otto.f Posted February 28, 2015 Share #150 Posted February 28, 2015 Jamie Roberts presented us a color profile way back in 2007 for the M8's IR-problems (before Leica came out with the filters) in CaptureOne 6.7.8 or so. I still use that for my M9 in this sort of situations. Ready in one click and still very happy with it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted February 28, 2015 Share #151 Posted February 28, 2015 De-saturate yellow slightly and shift yellow to slightly more red. Add some saturation to red. It took me 10 seconds in DXO. That's more like it. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyField Posted February 28, 2015 Share #152 Posted February 28, 2015 The last dozens of posts clearly indicate that, no matter which camera you have, you must have some editing skills to adjust how the camera records the image. It is not only a matter of "which Leica" ... it also applies to any camera. Each camera has it's own signature of colour and tone (as is generated by whatever conversion software you use). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 28, 2015 Share #153 Posted February 28, 2015 OK folks but the question is less to know how well we can tweak a pic file in PP than if there are differences between M9 and M240 in image quality. As i said above, i've never got red cast like this with my M240, even if the latter is not free from IR contamination actually. I did not take this picture myself BTW but i can dropbox the raw file for those interested. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyField Posted February 28, 2015 Share #154 Posted February 28, 2015 I am curious ... if you use Adobe software (Lightroom or ACR) you have the option of using the Adobe Standard or the Embedded profile to demosaic the images. I assume that the Embedded profile is the Leica-defined "desired conversion" as recorded in the Exif information of the DNG. The Adobe Standard is Adobe's colour model for the demosaicing strategy. I notice that, for my M9, (in particular, for skin tones) the Adobe Standard is more yellow and less red than the Leica Embedded conversion. I wonder if the M(240) conversions are similar ?? Do the staunch Leica shooters normally use Adobe Standard or the Leica Embedded profiles for the conversion ? I could be cynical ... the people who "love Leica Colours" may really "love Leica Colours as interpreted by Adobe and to hell with what Leica themselves think" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWC Doppel Posted February 28, 2015 Share #155 Posted February 28, 2015 It's interesting that some are saying in respect of the OP question "doesn't matter all can be dealt with in PP" yet look at the differences seen for one file in PP, just to remove a little red...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 28, 2015 Share #156 Posted February 28, 2015 Still looks zombified skin to me, just a little more dead.There is no way you can correct IR bleeding without removing/altering also the original visible-light colors. Never heard of LAB corrections and blending masks? That is a lot more work though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 28, 2015 Share #157 Posted February 28, 2015 De-saturate yellow slightly and shift yellow to slightly more red. Add some saturation to red. It took me 10 seconds in DXO. I do this all of the time on interior architectural and people shots that have mixed lighting. I have "presets" for this.I think this is nice, but I think the gentleman has some more red detailing in his face in reality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 28, 2015 Share #158 Posted February 28, 2015 It's interesting that some are saying in respect of the OP question "doesn't matter all can be dealt with in PP" yet look at the differences seen for one file in PP, just to remove a little red......I think it rather proves two things:a. colour perception is subjective and personal. b. colour is created in postprocessing, not by sensor type. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgenper Posted February 28, 2015 Share #159 Posted February 28, 2015 I zoomed in on just the white shirt and rotated the Hue until the RGB values were close to white. I moved around, picked a number of "white" pixels. Zoomed back, this is what I got. I do not think this problem was from IR bleed, think it is from the white-balance of the camera being thrown off by the mixed lighting. I've attached LCT's original as well, down-sampled so people can see the issue. Looks like Scönherrs should do something about their shop lighting.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted February 28, 2015 Share #160 Posted February 28, 2015 Never heard of LAB corrections and blending masks? That is a lot more work though. No way. If that is actually IR-bleed there is nothing to do about it, and any solution will be a compromise. The explanation is simple. Imagine you have two pixels A and B, both with the same value of red=100. But the value of A was given by 90 visible-red + 10 IR-bleed. And the value of B was given by 50 visible-red + 50 IR-bleed. Good luck with your LAB corrections. You cannot restore information that has been lost. Granted, you (as a human) may guess the IR bleeding for the different pixel areas and apply different corrections with several masks until the result seems natural. But using the same time, I could rather paint oil on canvas for a much nicer result Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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