semi-ambivalent Posted January 20, 2015 Share #1 Posted January 20, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Is it possible to break out currently offered M lenses, with some being in a "designed for digital" group? In effect that while some/all digital lenses are fine with film, some/all film lenses have trouble with digital (e.g. digital's infinitely thin plane of focus). Or are the alleged distinctions, in use, of no consequence, or imaginary? Always budgeting, s-a Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Hi semi-ambivalent, Take a look here "digital" M lenses. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
01af Posted January 20, 2015 Share #2 Posted January 20, 2015 There is no such thing as a 'digital M lens.' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted January 20, 2015 Share #3 Posted January 20, 2015 It is true that since Leica launched the M8 there is a stricter definition of "normal" which the lenses are tuned to. In practice it means that you may pick up an older lenses which may need to be adjusted to be tack on wide open but in practice this is quite rare as the factory calibration has always been very good. Last time I sent a lens out of warranty which was front focusing to be fixed by Leica a year ago it cost £135 if I remember correctly. Unrelated but worth noting is that with the M240, because of live view, Leica has built software that can calibrate the range finder on the M240 extremely accurately extremely quickly. Although previous RF calibration is accurate it required more of a human driven back and forth with had a slightly larger margin for human error. There have also been improvements to the RF mechanism in the M240. Best Rgds Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougg Posted January 21, 2015 Share #4 Posted January 21, 2015 M lenses designed before the M8 were expected to be used on film M cameras. Lenses introduced after the M8 might be expected to be more attuned to digital sensor characteristics. I'm not thinking so much of focus accuracy, though certainly focus is more critical on digital sensors. But also CA, flare, internal reflection, and the color shift side-to-side at edges, and on corners. Some earlier lenses get "smeary" in the corners on digital. I think it's fair to say the wider the lens angle of view, the more likely and noticeable these things may be. And most are less noticeable on the M8 than the M9 due to the smaller sensor size. Doug Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted January 21, 2015 Share #5 Posted January 21, 2015 There has been a general trend to higher contrast and the resolving of more detail across the lens industry. Contrast is certainly desirable on film as well. Higher resolution has been spurred by new techniques and new glass technologies. Hard to know whether the chicken or the egg came first. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rramesh Posted January 21, 2015 Share #6 Posted January 21, 2015 i would say that most Leica lenses can be used on Digital Ms, but the 6-bit coded lenses would be more digital ready. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
2wk Posted January 21, 2015 Share #7 Posted January 21, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Aren't the modern Summarits designed to play nice with digital sensors? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted January 21, 2015 Share #8 Posted January 21, 2015 Aren't the modern Summarits designed to play nice with digital sensors? By sure, given they were conceived when M8 was a scheduled project : but this applies to any lens introduced in the last 10 years. Some issues like the focus shift (the "famous case" is the Summilux 35 asph "no FLE") have became more evident on digital and are surely more targeted in recent designs : to be honest, I think that those issues have emerged also for two indirect but "digital-related" reasons, to say : - With digital, is much more easier to analize image details.. even at levels that have little or no impact on a standard print seen from a standard (related to size) distance. - Internet forums, bulletins, specialized sites etc. make informations quickier to spread. When people was accustomed to judge quality of a print from film, things were a lot different.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted January 21, 2015 Share #9 Posted January 21, 2015 There is no harm in thinking of new lenses designed for and after the M8 as 'digital' lenses, but it would be misleading to label such lenses as 'digital'. I would say 6-bit coding is an essential factor as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.liam Posted January 21, 2015 Share #10 Posted January 21, 2015 In time, all the 'standards' will be updated to accommodate the exacting requirements of sensors, an issue that will become even more acute as MP count rises. After all, glass is where the money is made. Certain Zeiss wides are irredeemable and have a disclaimer re: no-go for color digital. Theres a lot of back and forth in blogs re: focus shift. Some don't seem to mind but in reality, it robs resolution from otherwise exquisite glass. I love my 35 Summicron ASPH (and loved my 50 Summicron but sold it for this reason) however, used from ƒ/2.8-5.6, the last thing I want to do is guess how far I have to shift back to compensate. Accurately focusing is time consuming and error-fraught enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 21, 2015 Share #11 Posted January 21, 2015 There are no digital lenses officially but when i ask Leica to calibrate my pre-M8 lenses for digital i don't have to explain what i mean so there are informally "analogue lenses" and "digital lenses" from this viewpoint. The latters can be used for both film and digital while the formers will often need some calibration to be focussed accurately on digital bodies, especially fast lenses and telephotos. Never got focus shift on my 35/2 asph BTW but it is a 6bit sample from 2010. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted January 21, 2015 Share #12 Posted January 21, 2015 There are no digital lenses officially but when i ask Leica to calibrate my pre-M8 lenses for digital i don't have to explain what i mean so there are informally "analogue lenses" and "digital lenses" from this viewpoint. The latters can be used for both film and digital while the formers will often need some calibration to be focussed accurately on digital bodies, especially fast lenses and telephotos. Never got focus shift on my 35/2 asph BTW but it is a 6bit sample from 2010. All lenses sent to Leica are calibrated to the new "normal" which is just more precise then the old one Leica has always been obsessed by resolution and sharpness, amongst other things, which is why they try to make tolerances lower. That is one of the reasons for the flap door on Leica film cameras as it makes the film line up more precisely with the lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted January 21, 2015 Share #13 Posted January 21, 2015 Sensors are undoubtedly more exacting on lenses than film was/is and will show up flaws, such as focus shift and a lack of flatness in the image field, and do not like the extremely oblique angle of incidence of light from some wide angles which are semi-symmetrical. That said, there is room for imperfection in optics and its use can be highly effective at times. So to class a lens as a 'digital' lens is probably to under-appreciate the usefulness of some older more 'filmic' lenses when used on digital cameras. So to answer the question, no, there are none designed absolutely for digital although some recent offerings show that their design takes into account the 'exacting' requirements of digital sensors. Calibration of older lenses may well be required for precise focus on digital bodies, but given that you can use an 80+ year old Leica lens on a digital M series body, and that many lenses whilst newer, are still decades old, this is hardly surprising. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.liam Posted January 21, 2015 Share #14 Posted January 21, 2015 All lenses sent to Leica are calibrated to the new "normal" which is just more precise then the old one Is this a documented fact? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 21, 2015 Share #15 Posted January 21, 2015 Yes - Leica publicized their new adjustment rig widely in 2008 (iirc). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpwhite Posted January 22, 2015 Share #16 Posted January 22, 2015 Yes - Leica publicized their new adjustment rig widely in 2008 (iirc). And Thorsten noted in his "so long to Solms" piece last fall that Leica had just left their old M lens calibration rigs sitting in the abandoned Solms factory because Wetzlar installed new, far more precise and automated equipment for this purpose. It is quite clear that Leica's quality control now in the M240-era is based around tighter specifications (well, except for body strap lugs ). But it is also quite clear that most, if not all, Leica lenses have the design and capability to be superlative performers on the digital M's. For example, after much futzing with different ideas, I satisfied a terrible new year's GAS attack by purchasing a mint Summicron-M 28mm Silver finish. As best I can guess from our forum wiki, the lens was assembled in 2008, so it is pre-FF M9/ MM. Out of the box, Wow, the SM 28 is just brilliant wide open at close focus (my intended use) on both MM and M240. The good news is that I have avoided the expense of a Leica CLA, but in any case, this "older spec" lens sits up nicely with its APO 50 brother. Ok, thanks, I got to post how delighted I am with this old/new lens Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 22, 2015 Share #17 Posted January 22, 2015 Not only Leica/Leitz lenses. On one side I find my beloved 1950-ies Canon 50/1.8, specifically on the Monochrom the preferred lens over the Summilux 50asph, on the other side of the spectrum the superb Zeiss 35/1.4 ZM. I think it cannot be said that there are specific “digital” lenses, it is rather the case that present-day sensors tend to bring out the best in any lens, at least in the rangefinder world. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 22, 2015 Share #18 Posted January 22, 2015 [...] I satisfied a terrible new year's GAS attack by purchasing a mint Summicron-M 28mm Silver finish. As best I can guess from our forum wiki, the lens was assembled in 2008, so it is pre-FF M9/ MM. Out of the box, Wow, the SM 28 is just brilliant wide open at close focus (my intended use) on both MM and M240. The good news is that I have avoided the expense of a Leica CLA, but in any case, this "older spec" lens sits up nicely with its APO 50 brother Why "older spec"? Your 28/2 is 6bit coded and calibrated for digital if it was assembled after the M8 i guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenshacker Posted January 22, 2015 Share #19 Posted January 22, 2015 I can see the difference that 0.01mm makes when setting the shim for a 5cm F1.5 Sonnar, using the M9 or M Monochrom for the final adjustment. I cannot focus any better than that. The thinnest shim used in the 1930s Sonnar was ~0.02mm, after that- combine shims and use the variable stand-off ring. For film, getting it within 0.04mm was good enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougg Posted January 22, 2015 Share #20 Posted January 22, 2015 ...But it is also quite clear that most, if not all, Leica lenses have the design and capability to be superlative performers on the digital M's. For example, after much futzing with different ideas, I satisfied a terrible new year's GAS attack by purchasing a mint Summicron-M 28mm Silver finish. As best I can guess from our forum wiki, the lens was assembled in 2008, so it is pre-FF M9/ MM. Out of the box, Wow, the SM 28 is just brilliant wide open at close focus (my intended use) on both MM and M240. The good news is that I have avoided the expense of a Leica CLA, but in any case, this "older spec" lens sits up nicely with its APO 50 brother. Ok, thanks, I got to post how delighted I am with this old/new lens Congratulations on the new 28 Summicron, a wonderful lens! It was introduced at Photokina in 2000, long before the digital need. I got mine in 2005 as new-old-stock well below list, and in 2009 it went to DAG for 6-bit coding and focus calibration. So it's now up-to-date. I hope you enjoy yours too! Doug Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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