Which Leica M camera would you buy?

[IkarusJohn]

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M60, M-A & Monochrom

[MarkP]

M60, M-A & Monochrom

 

Is that all?

[IkarusJohn]

Is that all?

 

Well ...

 

Currently cluttering my shelves I have:

 

• M3, M9-P (upgrade) and Monochrom all in matching silver chrome, and let's just say more lenses than I can comfortably carry all at once
   
  
• Leica T, with Vario-Elmar and M adapter and macro adapter
   
  
• Hasselbad SWC/M
   
  
• Nikon D800E, and three lenss
  

 

Oh, let's not forget my phone.

 

I've been out a bit with the SWC and the M3 recently, and there is a very perverse joy in setting only the ISO, aperture and shutter speed, and not seeing the end result on the LCD. Your experience may be different, but I find that not having distractions (provided I remember to take the lens cap off and to focus) is incredibly liberating.

 

The Nikon is all about electronics, and the Leica T is fun to carry around (it also does video, zoom, AF and macro, and it's also priced for that sort of electronic photography, when compared to the M cameras). I've never been that keen on all the electronic clutter that comes with the M(240), particularly when the D800E actually does it better - the electronics, I mean. And cheaper.

 

M3, Monochrom and M-60 (and Leica T) has a certain appeal, where the M(240) never has. If I want that level of electronic implementation, the D800 or the Leica T suits me better (if you get my drift).

 

Cheers

John

[colonel]

Well ...

 

Currently cluttering my shelves I have:

 

• M3, M9-P (upgrade) and Monochrom all in matching silver chrome, and let's just say more lenses than I can comfortably carry all at once
   
  
• Leica T, with Vario-Elmar and M adapter and macro adapter
   
  
• Hasselbad SWC/M
   
  
• Nikon D800E, and three lenss
  

 

Oh, let's not forget my phone.

 

I've been out a bit with the SWC and the M3 recently, and there is a very perverse joy in setting only the ISO, aperture and shutter speed, and not seeing the end result on the LCD. Your experience may be different, but I find that not having distractions (provided I remember to take the lens cap off and to focus) is incredibly liberating.

 

The Nikon is all about electronics, and the Leica T is fun to carry around (it also does video, zoom, AF and macro, and it's also priced for that sort of electronic photography, when compared to the M cameras). I've never been that keen on all the electronic clutter that comes with the M(240), particularly when the D800E actually does it better - the electronics, I mean. And cheaper.

 

M3, Monochrom and M-60 (and Leica T) has a certain appeal, where the M(240) never has. If I want that level of electronic implementation, the D800 or the Leica T suits me better (if you get my drift).

 

Cheers

John

 

the M240 isn't really cluttered. Its just an M9 with quieter shutter, faster operation and better ISO performance. If you like the M9 you will like the M240 much more

[onceuponatime]

Given the issues with Digital M's : fuses blowing, cracked sensor, RF out of alignment, SD card lockups et al.

Which Leica service do a fine job of reparing in 8 weeks or so,

 

I would go for Rolleiflex TLR with Zeiss F2.8.

[Cyril Jayant]

M-P/M240 shutter, electronics and VF. MM chrome design. M9 user interface, CCD sensor. M6 form factor and weight. ME price. C`mon Leica, you can do it.

 

I am nearly on this quote of Ecaton.

 

I have voted for M Monochrome as that gives me near results of M6 that is my main focus.It is the only camera that appeals me. My M8 is still doing well and M6 gives best monochrome.

 

If I don't go for M an more then , it is because I am fed up with how it is being evolutions with just slight in aspect very now and then.

[Cyril Jayant]

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the M240 isn't really cluttered. Its just an M9 with quieter shutter, faster operation and better ISO performance. If you like the M9 you will like the M240 much more

 

But the Colour rendition is quite different in M9 than M240 . and colours are far more better in M9 ( M8 )

[colonel]

But the Colour rendition is quite different in M9 than M240 . and colours are far more better in M9 ( M8 )

 

 

 

The M240 is more natural if that's what you meant

The M9 had quite weird colours

In Lightroom neither makes a difference ?

[jdlaing]

The M240 is more natural if that's what you meant

The M9 had quite weird colours

In Lightroom neither makes a difference ?

 

Not better nor worse.

Different.

[A miller]

I know this has been said earlier (in fact very early on) in this thread, but what Leica really needs is a color digital camera that has ISO performance similar to the MM. I'm talking 1250-2500 without ANY meaningful loss of quality (similar to 320 on the M9), and very usable 5000 (similar to 640 on the M9). This is a big ask, but Leica has had a good 5 years to work on it. Just about every other camera company has figured it out.

 

Above all of the bell and whistles, LCDs, no LCDs, red dots, no red dots and buffer bologna, significant ISO improvement along these lines would be a huge game changer.

 

I would take a color digital M with the IQ and clunkiness of an M9 but sporting this type of improved ISO over an M-P or M60 any day.

[Oneshot]

For the moment I have a M9, but I would be interested by the M-P. But as the life cycle of a M is around 3 years, I suppose that we will see a new M at the end of 2015. Thus is it a good investment to buy a M-P now ?

 

Owners of M9-P did you notice a big fall of the price of the M9-P on the second market when M240 came out ?

[wattsy]

For the moment I have a M9, but I would be interested by the M-P. But as the life cycle of a M is around 3 years, I suppose that we will see a new M at the end of 2015. Thus is it a good investment to buy a M-P now ?

 

Owners of M9-P did you notice a big fall of the price of the M9-P on the second market when M240 came out ?

 

Only you can judge whether it is worth waiting another year or so for an updated M but, for what it's worth, I'd say that if stuff like live view and the EVF are important to you, the current M and M-P are not state of the art. As far as resale goes, it is a very soft market for used Leica gear at the moment and I doubt it will become more buoyant any time soon. You will be unlikely to recoup much of the £900 difference in price between bog standard M and M-P.

[colonel]

maybe one day Leica will allow us to build our own camera on order:

 

1. LCD: yes/no

2. Video button: Yes/ no

3. B&W or bayer array: yes/no

4. 24 high ISO or 50mp high detail: 24/50

5. Frameline preview lever: yes/no

6. Colours: please specify

7. RF magnification: 0.58/0.72/0.85

8. Removable battery or double side non-removable: Removable/non-removable

9. Double SD card slot or not: yes/no

10. Hybrid VF: yes/no

11. Designation: Front red dot / front black dot / typeface on top

12. Light window or LED illuminated ?

13. Sim card 4G/5G slot: yes/no

14. Top info LED with battery meter: yes/no

15. Flat top design or step top design

16. White gloves or fingerless dirty torn woolen east end gloves ?

 

[dant]

I couldn't vote right. 50% MM, 50% M240. I could only vote once so it went for M240. I like the M-P, but it is getting out of sight in cost.

 

I'd prefer if you could make stripped down Leica M240 with a screen, no video and whatever you can leave out that gets the cost down to $5000 a body.

[dant]

Well ...

 

Currently cluttering my shelves I have:

 

• 
  
• M3, M9-P (upgrade) and Monochrom all in matching silver chrome, and let's just say more lenses than I can comfortably carry all at once
  
• Leica T, with Vario-Elmar and M adapter and macro adapter
  
• Hasselbad SWC/M
  
• Nikon D800E, and three lenss
  

 

Oh, let's not forget my phone.

 

I've been out a bit with the SWC and the M3 recently, and there is a very perverse joy in setting only the ISO, aperture and shutter speed, and not seeing the end result on the LCD. Your experience may be different, but I find that not having distractions (provided I remember to take the lens cap off and to focus) is incredibly liberating.

 

The Nikon is all about electronics, and the Leica T is fun to carry around (it also does video, zoom, AF and macro, and it's also priced for that sort of electronic photography, when compared to the M cameras). I've never been that keen on all the electronic clutter that comes with the M(240), particularly when the D800E actually does it better - the electronics, I mean. And cheaper.

 

M3, Monochrom and M-60 (and Leica T) has a certain appeal, where the M(240) never has. If I want that level of electronic implementation, the D800 or the Leica T suits me better (if you get my drift).

 

Cheers

John

 

Well, everyone has their pet likes and dislikes. A D800 is useless for me as it is soooo big and stealth factor is lost. It is OK for landscapers but that is it. If all I wanted was high mp I'd go MF. Now, Sony has a big mp sensor and is small...but it has no shutter speed dial and only a program dials. I need instant manual controls. That is the only reason I shoot the overpriced Leica...manual controls.

 

Now, I'm not bragging 'hey look at me I'm shooting manual'. I've been shooting manual for 46 years. I 'd like to shoot auto, but for my type of work auto wont work a lot of the time.

 

NSFW

 

2014 Gathering of the Juggalos.

 

No screen? A terrible, terrible handicap ...I would avoid at all costs. Sure it is OK for the camera fondler wanting a throwback to the old days. But I could never afford that...I need to produce.

 

Look at what the average Leica shooter here produces in the gallery...snapshots. So of course the idea of adding handicaps like no screen will appeal to those that are not serious about production and don't care.

 

This is what I produce...

 

Encyclopedia Photographic Ink Jet Printing Media

 

My work is in nearly 100 museums and public collections around the world. I'm telling you that no screen is garbage that appeals only to ego and camera fondlers.

 

If you can't produce with a screen...you wont produce without a screen ...it is that simple.

 

But, if you have a market for camera fondlers and can get 4 or 5 times the price of what something is worth...well I can't say no...it is the American way right?

 

Really Leica I shoot your cameras as a love / hate relationship, same as I do Fuji X. You charge a fortune for your cams and use 2nd rate sensors in them. (OK, the MM has a beautiful sensor. You put some grain or scratches on the MM and it looks like film!)

 

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Girl_at_Rodeo_Copyright_2014_Daniel_Teoli_Jr._lr.jpg )

 

But for the prices you charge in your color cams Leica you should have cutting edge sensors the others are always trying to play catch up with.

 

Now, Fuji has superb sensors. My little crappy Fuji's are in the same ballpark as the overpriced Leica in IQ, but it has poor manual controls.

 

Camera Comparisons

 

The Fuji 'focus by wire' and loose goose camera controls are just terrible. I have to use gaffers tape on Fuji's lenses to keep the adjustments in place. (And some of their lenses don't even have loose goose manual controls, they are dummied down lenses with no adjustments.) Your lenses are not much better Leica. Your controls are too loose. That is why I prefer Zeiss. But like everything else, Zeiss has its downfalls. They have grease oozing out their butt. But their controls are excellent for 'right friction' for with street shooting.

 

You have lost your way Leica as a reporters cam. You are mainly for appealing to rich guys as a play thing or male jewelry. As you keep advancing with collector cams Leica, my only hope is that the Japanese make an affordable rangefinder that will tie in top notch sensor tech with reliable manual controls in an affordable body.

 

Now, no one can take away from you Leica that your camera is a masterpiece of design in simplicity, fit and finish. It is a thing of beauty to hold and behold...but that only goes so far Leica when it comes to producing.

[IkarusJohn]

A D800 is useless for me as it is soooo big and stealth factor is lost. It is OK for landscapers ...

 

Sports and wildlife. For landscape, I use my Monochrom. But the D800 is BIG, and with the 80-400 zoom it's HUGE. So big, I'm selling it. Too many options, too many buttons, just too much (and it's a NIkon - not a Canon ...)

 

No screen? A terrible, terrible handicap ...I would avoid at all costs ... My work is in nearly 100 museums and public collections around the world. I'm telling you that no screen is garbage that appeals only to ego and camera fondlers.

 

Tell that to Salgado (who only switched to digital halfway through his last project), or any other photojournalist, professional, fine art photographer who used (and still uses) film.

 

Look, I get it - photojournalists, wedding photographers - all manner of professional button pushers must have an LCD so they can check they actually have a picture, exposure, framing and focus. I'm not sure that Leica's R&D and marketing philosophy is built around professionals any more (they would be broke if they did); I'm not at all sure that many professional photographers can afford/justify Leica gear; and more critically perhaps this isn't aimed a professional photographers? There are photographers who are not professional, and have no aspirations in that regard, who are still allowed to take photos, aren't they?

 

Let me put this more politely - just because someone is a professional photographer, it doesn't actually mean that they are the font of all wisdom of matters photographic, or that all equipment offered by Leica should meet their needs. In fact, I don't really think that a professional's needs in any sphere of endeavour is actually the benchmark against which all other participants measure themselves. Their priorities are really quite different.

 

I can understand people saying they're not interested in this camera, or that it's too expensive; but I don't understand the heat. Why are so many people apparently offended by Leica offering a product they're not interested in? I really don't get it, and I really don't understand the leap in logic that because you're not interested in it any one who is must be a (shock horror) FONDLER - run for the exits!

 

 

Cheers

John

[RJV]

I have both the M 9 and M240 I do a lot of copy work with a classic copy stand. I use a Visoflex III with the M 9 along with El-Nikkor lenses mounted with a custom adapter I machined for the OTZFO. With the M 240 LV, I can compose directly on the screen. However, the area covered on the sensor is not quite the same as displayed on the LV screen. I wish they were exactly the same just like the old film Nikons. Now, for the other wishes. I wish that the menu for both cameras had a command to invert the screen 180 degrees so the camera works on a classic copy stand as the menu items are now upside down. I wish the battery and SD card were externally removable so I don't have to remove the camera from the copy stand and mess up my alignment. I wish that the camera had a power socket so I could power the camera from the mains with a class II transformer as several of my jobs have contained over 2000 images each, thus requiring multiple battery charges and memory card removal. Leica, please read this because, with microprocessors, most anything can be programmed! And, you already know that!

These cameras make GREAT copy equipment.

RJV

[michaelwj]

Assuming its the same price as my well used M6 right?

 

Michael

[colonel]

A D800 is useless for me as it is soooo big and stealth factor is lost. It is OK for landscapers but that is it. If all I wanted was high mp I'd go MF. Now, Sony has a big mp sensor and is small...but it has no shutter speed dial and only a program dials. I need instant manual controls. That is the only reason I shoot the overpriced Leica...manual controls.

 

But, if you have a market for camera fondlers and can get 4 or 5 times the price of what something is worth...well I can't say no...it is the American way right?

 

Now, Fuji has superb sensors. My little crappy Fuji's are in the same ballpark as the overpriced Leica in IQ, but it has poor manual controls.

 

You have lost your way Leica as a reporters cam. You are mainly for appealing to rich guys as a play thing or male jewelry. As you keep advancing with collector cams Leica, my only hope is that the Japanese make an affordable rangefinder that will tie in top notch sensor tech with reliable manual controls in an affordable body.

 

 

I think you are confusing what you like with what everyone else likes. Nice but hardly the way companies build strategies.

 

Some specifics

1. The D810 is too heavy for me but it happens to be one of the most popular FF DSLR series and is well used by professionals.

2. Fuji sensors are the main reason I don't use their cameras any more. A better bayer please ....

3. Leica has a luxury constituency, get over it

4. Journalists use any old robust DSLR and iPhones, depending on their wealth/assignment. Eg. War photographers don't give a fig about anything except robustness, battery life and AF reliability

5. The definition of overpriced is if the market doesn't buy. If the market does in the quantities sufficient for the manufacturer then it's correctly priced. Laws of supply and demand.

6. A Japanese RF - ha ha. They have other things to do.

 

Enjoy all your cameras, I sure do mine

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