What to use as a back-up to the M240?

[jedi996sps]

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It's a bit louder....but not terribly...

 

IMHO will not stop you from doing any serious street photography. Takes exceptional photos!

 

Your kidding! right?

 

The A7r is like someone hammering away on a door knocker, whereas the M240 is like someone with gloves on tapping on the door.

[PeterP]

Fuji X-E2. Not sure if it can be called a back-up though as i tend to use it more than the M240.

I just recently purchased the X-E2, I found it incredibly easy to use, EVF focusing is a dream. I also bought the 35mm 1.4 fujinon lens which yields excellent results. Not really the same as the M, and I may get a second M body at some time. But now I worry less when I have a freeze up.

All that said, I still am pretty much a full time Canon shooter. Leica is with me all of the time, but when shooting boxing & action I prefer the system that addresses those needs.

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[AlanJW]

It's a bit louder....but not terribly...

 

IMHO will not stop you from doing any serious street photography. Takes exceptional photos!

 

My opinion on the noise is quite different. The A7r is one of the loudest cameras I've ever used. Louder than a D800e and very much louder than a M(240). Even louder than an M9 and I considered the M9 whirr-clink-bang noise barely acceptable. The A7r has great potential but stealth is not one of its virtues.

[algrove]

It's a bit louder....but not terribly...

 

IMHO will not stop you from doing any serious street photography. Takes exceptional photos!

 

Do not know if you have tried using both the A7r and M240 in a street environment, but try it and then see if your opinion changes, Now if you were comparing the RX1 versus the M240, that is a different story where the Sony makes almost no discernible sound.

Edited July 21, 2014 by algrove

[esophoria]

Do not know if you have tried using both the A7r and M240 in a street environment, but try it and then see if your opinion changes, Now if you were comparing the RX1 versus the M240, that is a different story where the Sony makes almost no discernible sound.

 

I own both cameras and do much street photography with both. Although the A7r shutter is a bit louder-- it doesn't interfere with taking photos.

 

Always...your mileage my vary....but if you want a great backup for the M240.....this is the one. With the introduction of the A7s-- you can get a great deal on the A7r if you shop.

[rscheffler]

IMO, the value of the a7 series as an M backup is dependent on one's expectations of M-lens performance for the types of situations one typically shoots.

 

From my own testing of over 20 rangefinder lenses on the a7R, my conclusion was that most lenses 35mm and wider will produce technically inferior results if compared to images with the same lenses on an M240 due to edge image smearing. Some 50mm lenses, such as the Lux ASPH are also noticeably inferior on the a7R. But, as mentioned, it really depends on your needs. The more technical your subject matter and expectations, the better it is to stick with a digital M body. I'd also be very wary of M-lenses on the Fuji system, for the same reasons.

 

I've seen tests indicating the a7 is a bit better than the a7r. I've also tried the a7 with various rangefinder lenses and believe such conclusions are basically the difference in sensor resolution and less problematic color shifting to distract from detail smearing. The a7S seems to be even better in this regard because it is 'low rez' and its huge pixels don't result in color shifts. That's not to say it's optimized to work with rangefinder lenses.

 

I think the OP needs to determine how important it is to stick with an M system backup. It seems somewhat important if he's planning to bring an M film camera. Unfortunately on the digital side, such a backup is fairly expensive.

 

If there was enough lead time and credit available, I'd probably try to source a decent used M9 and put it on a line of credit, or similar. One that is in good physical and operating condition at a reasonable price, with the plan to resell it after the trip.

 

The Sony RX10 is an interesting option. I tried one for a few weeks earlier this year and it was a camera I didn't want to take seriously, or like. But my experience was exactly the opposite. It was a lot of fun to use (despite, IMO, the relatively poor Sony UI) and was a useful sidekick to my M system while out and about. Image quality is good and the lens is decently sharp, particularly at wider focal lengths. Though not amazing at the long end, it's usable and benefits from being stopped down a bit. Based on this, I'd also consider the new Panasonic rival for the RX10, though I think it's a bit larger.

 

But all of this costs money and maybe it's just more cost effective for the OP to stick with what he has as a backup. How much will 20-30 rolls of film cost to purchase, store, transport and eventually process compared to buying another digital camera, which as someone pointed out, may end up underutilized? Film will mean the least initial outlay. Buying a backup NEX, RX10 or other interchangeable lens camera will be in the $500-1500 range. A used M9 is $3000-4000...

Edited July 21, 2014 by rscheffler

[algrove]

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I own both cameras and do much street photography with both. Although the A7r shutter is a bit louder-- it doesn't interfere with taking photos.

 

Always...your mileage my vary....but if you want a great backup for the M240.....this is the one. With the introduction of the A7s-- you can get a great deal on the A7r if you shop.

 

"A bit louder" was not my recollection nor others around me when I used it. I have my backup, but for me the Sony was not it.

 

OP-- How about $320 for the Panasonic LF1? It is the Leica C equivalent.

[jonoslack]

I own both cameras and do much street photography with both. Although the A7r shutter is a bit louder-- it doesn't interfere with taking photos.

 

Always...your mileage my vary....but if you want a great backup for the M240.....this is the one. With the introduction of the A7s-- you can get a great deal on the A7r if you shop.

 

I'm sorry - the shutter noise . . . and worse, the implications it had for camera shake are a real show stopper for me (I've bought an A7r, and then when I doubted myself borrowed another one). I can shoot the M(240) fairly reliably at 1/2 shutter speed, whereas the A7r certainly required twice shutter speed.

 

Worse than this, the smearing of corners on many (certainly not all, but many) lenses wider than 50mm was completely unacceptable.

[jonoslack]

Ron - first of all, excellent post - I agree with it all.

IMO, the value of the a7 series as an M backup is dependent on one's expectations of M-lens performance for the types of situations one typically shoots.

 

The Sony RX10 is an interesting option. I tried one for a few weeks earlier this year and it was a camera I didn't want to take seriously, or like. But my experience was exactly the opposite. It was a lot of fun to use (despite, IMO, the relatively poor Sony UI) and was a useful sidekick to my M system while out and about. Image quality is good and the lens is decently sharp, particularly at wider focal lengths. Though not amazing at the long end, it's usable and benefits from being stopped down a bit. Based on this, I'd also consider the new Panasonic rival for the RX10, though I think it's a bit larger.

.

 

I agree, the Panasonic does look excellent - it might be a candidate for the next Leica V camera as well (according to Leica Rumors). It is a bit larger than the Sony (and not so nicely made) - but it has 4k video, and an (apparently) excellent 25-400 f2.8/f4 zoom. Perhaps not a backup to the M, but certainly a great sidekick.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

The A7R is loud. I don't think it's louder than the bang whirrrrr we were all able to live with on the M9 (I still do). Different but both loud. The A7 is much quieter than the A7R. Between the M9 and M240. The A7S has a totally silent shutter option which works with stationary subjects.

 

As to what's the best backup for a M240? Well, doesn't that depend on what you shoot and what lenses you own? If you own the WATE and a 90mm then the Sony's are great. If you shoot primes between 18 and 35mm then they're best avoided. So what lenses are you taking?

 

The other thing is do you want a backup or a complimentary camera? A back-up really should replace the original as best as possible. A compliment may offer some backup but is also useful in it's own right.

 

Without knowing the above, since you have a film body as "backup", I'd personally opt for a complimentary camera. If it were me, I would carry a Sony RX100 mk3. It's tiny. It has excellent image quality, abiet with little DOF control. There's video, which can be fun for family and friends. It charges off USB so you don't need another charger and it has a usable EVF which is essential to me. The real benifit is that is may serve some use anyway even if the 240 is fine (which I'm sure it will be). It's size and an inbuilt flash mean you might have situations where it becomes preferable to a rangefinder. Your wife would enjoy it. In fact if anything were to happen to your 240 you may not get it back if she "borrows" it.

 

just my 0.02

 

Gordon

[thighslapper]

X Vario is an excellent back-up and complementary camera ......

 

I never go anywhere without both ..... plus you can use the same EVF ....

 

I thought the T would be ideal with the lens compatability ...... but it is such a different beast that it feels like using 2 completely different camera systems .... whereas the XV feels and works in an unmistakably 'Leica' fashion.

 

I've had or tried all the usual options and I keep coming back to the XV ..... a seriously underrated camera that produces superb images that can easily be printed A2 and above ...... and compare very favourably with the M .....

[Herr Barnack]

Your kidding! right?

 

The A7r is like someone hammering away on a door knocker, whereas the M240 is like someone with gloves on tapping on the door.

 

...The A7r has great potential but stealth is not one of its virtues.

 

The above is what I have previously heard, which makes the A7/A7r a no-go for me.

One of the things I love mst about the M240 is its quietness - but the, there are so many things to love about the M240...

[tundraline]

You pose a difficult question, Carlos. I have owned (and then sold) a Sony A7R with a bunch of Sony Zeiss lenses, but wound up not liking the camera very much. Then I had to steel myself to invest in a second M240 body, which was financially painful. I don't think there are any good backups that make sense other than a second M240 body. An M9 or M-E body would be less expensive, but not by much. If a second M240 body is not in the cards, then as others have suggested I would give serious thought to picking up a Sony RX100 (first version), which you could probably find for around $400 in new or near new condition. Like the A7R, the RX100 has a horrible user interface, but that little beast takes amazing photos. It sports a wonderful Zeiss lens that zooms between 28 and 90mm (35mm equivalent), and also has image stabilization and a very good metering system. The RX100 is my go-to pocket and bicycle riding camera. It's no Leica, but it does take superb digital photographs. The results the RX100 provides surprise me every time I use it. Best, Tom

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

My back up is a Leica Monochrom................shoot color with the M and shoot B&W with the MM

No Brainer

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Your kidding! right?

 

The A7r is like someone hammering away on a door knocker, whereas the M240 is like someone with gloves on tapping on the door.

Not correct.........the a7r is only slightly louder than the M.........................nothing in it

[flyalf]

Im with Alan on this one. I have tried different mirrorless as backup to M9 and M, but they simply wont do. Good photo-making computers, but not cameras for photography . I kept my M9 for a while as backup to M, but found it a luxury that I cannot afford. So now my old RD-1 is the last resort .

[Avatar]

My back up is a Leica Monochrom................shoot color with the M and shoot B&W with the MM

No Brainer

 

That's what I do as well.

 

I also just bought a Ricoh GR. As I shoot primarily 28mm, this camera is a no brainer.

 

I have a hard time distinguishing images from it and the M240 at times although it was easy as I didn't have a 28 on the M240.

 

I shoot color so rarely, that if I don't use the M240 in the studio as I thought I might, I would be very happy with a Monochrome and a companion Ricoh with me on most shoots.

 

Incredible camera made for street shooters., 28mm 2.8. Not an M240 replacement of course but thought I'd mention it here as for me, it very well could replace the M240 on the street.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Avatar

[viramati]

The A7 as opposed to the A7r is certainly quieter which is due to the fact that it has an electronic first shutter. Also it's files are the same size as the M which I find makes PP easier. Personally I don't need the 36mp files that the A7r offers and am very happy with the output form the A7. It also is said to perform better with some leica lenses,

If this camera is only ever going to be used if you M breaks down then I would also consider the Ricoh GXR with M module, though out of production now you can pick them up cheap and they are the only camera other than leica with a sensor designed for RF lenses

[jedi996sps]

Not correct.........the a7r is only slightly louder than the M.........................nothing in it

 

Then i either have an extremely noisy A7r or an extra quiet M240 or perhaps both ...

 

I do not mind the noise and i tend to use the A7r on a tripod where possible.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[algrove]

It seems this discussion has gone way past what Carlos asked since he said he could not even afford an X2 or used M8 for this trip. Well, to me that means not getting into a whole new system. Perhaps something under $1k would work for Carlos although he has let us debate all kinds of gear, but I would like to hear his $ top end for this endeavor.

 

Ball is in your court Carlos.