A 75 APO-Summicron or a 75 Summilux

[NightSun]

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Hi Jennifer,

 

Far from wanting to incite more confusion into your dilemma, but, still, I would throw one more factor into the equation: Summarit 75. This makes quite much sense if you lean more toward the modern rendering of the APO Summicron, but would not want to dump a big chunk of money into another lens without really knowing whether it works out for you or not. The Summarit 75 is really a great lens and quite close to the APO Summicron, some say that in practical situations their sharpness is nearly indistinguishable. I attest that it's a wonderful lens and even though Summarits occasionally earn some bashing because of their slightly inferior mechanic construction with respect to other Leica lenses, it's still miles ahead of plasticky DSLR lenses and I found no fault with the 75 at all. Apart from this, what you lose compared to the APO Summicron, are +2/3 stops, and close focus (0.9m vs 0.7m). However, as for speed, f/2.5 produces already rather thin depth of field, and I don't see much reason to go faster for portraits.

 

Of course, if you want the distinguished, classical rendering of the Summilux, you will end up with that one, as there is nothing else that has a similar rendering among 75mm lenses. Though from my side I don't have a lust for it anymore since having the Nikkor 8.5cm f2, which has a (classic) character of its own.

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[Paul J]

Is there anyone here who owns both Summilux and Summicron, who has done, or could do a wide open bokeh/rendering comparison?

[topoxforddoc]

The 75 lux M and 80 lux R share the same genes. For many R shooters, the 80 lux is the R version of the 50/1 Nocti. The 75 renders in a very similar fashion. So if you like the Noci look, then the 75 lux is your lens. If you prefer the 50/1.4 asph M look, then get the 75 cron.

 

Charlie

[LocalHero1953]

If you are looking for this (and having a 90 APO) .. why not thinking of a Hektor 73 1,9 ? That' a true oldstyle rendering...

 

+1

 

Having both the 75 and 90 APO Summicrons, I've been through similar thought processes about sharpness, softness and character. Both those lenses are scarily sharp at times. I prefer the 90 as a classic portrait lens, while the 75 is my favourite carry around lens, both lighter and wider. But for portraits, especially of older women, they are both unforgiving. Rather than make an either/or choice, I delved into the old lens market; I have a couple of LTM Nikkors, plus what is fast becoming my favourite, the Hektor 7.3, which can be dreamily soft wide open but has character in spades (show it an out of focus highlight and it starts to party). Now I can choose my lens to match my subject: grittily sharp or 1930's Hollywood soft.

[cpclee]

The 75 lux M and 80 lux R share the same genes. For many R shooters, the 80 lux is the R version of the 50/1 Nocti. The 75 renders in a very similar fashion. So if you like the Noci look, then the 75 lux is your lens. If you prefer the 50/1.4 asph M look, then get the 75 cron.

 

Charlie

 

This is a very good characterization.

[cpclee]

Hi Jennifer,

 

Far from wanting to incite more confusion into your dilemma, but, still, I would throw one more factor into the equation: Summarit 75. This makes quite much sense if you lean more toward the modern rendering of the APO Summicron, but would not want to dump a big chunk of money into another lens without really knowing whether it works out for you or not. The Summarit 75 is really a great lens and quite close to the APO Summicron, some say that in practical situations their sharpness is nearly indistinguishable. I attest that it's a wonderful lens and even though Summarits occasionally earn some bashing because of their slightly inferior mechanic construction with respect to other Leica lenses, it's still miles ahead of plasticky DSLR lenses and I found no fault with the 75 at all. Apart from this, what you lose compared to the APO Summicron, are +2/3 stops, and close focus (0.9m vs 0.7m). However, as for speed, f/2.5 produces already rather thin depth of field, and I don't see much reason to go faster for portraits.

 

Of course, if you want the distinguished, classical rendering of the Summilux, you will end up with that one, as there is nothing else that has a similar rendering among 75mm lenses. Though from my side I don't have a lust for it anymore since having the Nikkor 8.5cm f2, which has a (classic) character of its own.

 

I agree that the 75 Summarit is an outstanding alternative. That half stop difference will save you a lot of money. I shot with one before getting the Summicron. The Summarit is as good optically as the Summicron but with a slightly more classical character that some people prefer for portraits. Most of the time though the two are very hard to tell apart.

 

In the end I got the Summicron when I saw a screaming deal, and I have listed the Summarit. But to be honest I could be just as happy with either.

[NB23]

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I own both. I never do tests and comparisons. I'm like that. I have a digital retoucher so I throw my files at her and she throws them at customers so i basically never see what I shot. Heaven! (I hate PP!!).

 

I'm a darkroom rat. I let my prints talk. It takes me years before fully understanding a given lens. It talks through the tones flowing thru the sharpness of grains... So many variables.

 

Believe me, i hate digital with a passion. The mere action of loading files in the computer is enough to make me stop shooting digi.

 

In about 2020 I'll be able to tell precisely how each lens fares versus the other. Until then, all the fun is in the very slow and super rewarding process. Yes, it can take me 5 years to realize I own a lemon... Which is perfect, after all because it's true: there is no correlation between a great lens and a great photograph.

 

This reminds me I'll have to use my 75 cron this weekend

Edited July 17, 2014 by NB23

[hossegor]

the Summilux 75 can make your pictures look like a painting.someone on this forum once said, it paints with the light. it is a magical lens. softer than the new ASPH lenses but in a good way. i would always prefer the LUX.

[swamiji]

I have both, and as much as I love the APO-Cron, I am going to recommend the Summilux. Wide open it's very f/1 Noctilux like. Which is not a surprise as they are both Mandler lenses. Stopped down it very sharp.

[Erik Gunst Lund]

I have owned both and used them on the M8 and M8u

IMHO:

Both where difficult to frame with M8, a bit improved on M8u due to the updated framelines

Summilux is very difficult to focus at 1.4 due to slim DOF and generally at all apertures due to focus shift.

Summicron is difficult to focus due to very short focus throw.

Sold both.

Looking for a perfect sample of the Summilux again...

[jackstraw]

After much lusting, research and image gazing, I acquired a 75 Lux, German version, circa 1998. I was concerned about all the posts i have read re focus shift, difficulty of nailing, long throw, etc. The images, however, when the stars align motivated my purchase.

I have never been more enchanted with any lens on any camera. Wide open it nails the point of focus and the OOF area slowly melts away. I have never encountered less distracting, more pleasing bokeh. I now understand why this was Dr. Mandler's favorite lens. Only problem, I don't want to take it off my M9. Sharp where it should be sharp, and soft where I want it to be soft. The most FLATTERING portrait lens I could imagine. Truly, a work of genius. Thank you Dr. Mandler.

[Saad]

Congratulations jackstraw you just made me feel good, thank you. Two days ago I dished out $6,850 on a "new other" 75 Summilux from Ebay. It's made in Germany with SN 386xxx. I have been waiting to find new one for 3 years. Lets hope when I get it, it will actually be new.

[Rick]

I have owned both ...

Looking for a perfect sample of the Summilux again...

 

That says it all.

[bocaburger]

I had both lenses a few years ago. The Cron, like all Leica's modern ASPH and APO lenses, is free of almost all aberrations, and almost of clinical perfection. However it is those small residual aberrations that were impossible to eradicate in Mandler's day, which make his lenses render in a way I find beautiful. Optically, I would prefer the Lux hands down.

 

Ergonomically, I found the Lux to be a nightmare. The focusing ring was stiff (there was even an aftermarket firm selling a hideous-looking but useful clamp-on grip for it to add leverage) and the throw quite long (good for pinpoint focusing, bad for quick focusing). And even with the shade not deployed, the nose obscured a good third of the viewfinder frame. As much as I loved the way the lens rendered, is how much I detested how it handled.

 

On an M, with the EVF, finder blockage wouldn't be a problem, and with the M's more robust tripod hole I wouldn't be leery of using the rig on a tripod for leisurely portraiture. So I do regret selling the lens (I think I got $1600 for it) but I'm not paying what they go for nowadays. I have a CV 75/2.5 and it suffices. Has more the look of the Lux than the Cron.

[Rick]

Jennifer - Here is an identical thread started two months ago asking the same question. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-lenses/328870-leica-75mm-buy.html Maybe, moderators could combine these two identical threads.

 

Here is another thread that has been active for two years. It does a pretty good job covering all that has been said on the forum about the 75 Summilux: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-lenses/224266-75-summilux.html

 

I've owned both, kept the Lux, wouldn't imagine selling it. I have the 50 Lux and it is very close in rendering to the 75 Cron... so I let the Cron go. It is the only Leica lens I've ever sold if, you don't count the 50 2.0 APO I returned August 2013.

 

Rick

Edited July 18, 2014 by RickLeica

[MarkP]

Wide open it's very f/1 Noctilux like.

 

But better corrected.

[Jennifer]

I've shortlisted two Lux 75's. Both seem to be in very good order (the vendors claim ex+/ex++). One is a late 80's, made in Canada, v2 and the other, another v2, is about 10 years younger and of German manufacture. I know it's a very personal choice but, on the assumption that all other things are equal, can a 25%+ premium be sensibly justified for a newer lens and a "Made in Germany" label?

[Paul J]

The Exc ++ Summilux that I bought had fungus and a broken focus mount. I would factor in a CLA if I were you.

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[algrove]

+1

[Jennifer]

The Exc ++ Summilux that I bought had fungus and a broken focus mount. I would factor in a CLA if I were you.

 

+1

 

I'd be very hesitant indeed to spend this sort of money without either examining personally prior to purchase or having the guarantee of a full refund if the lens turns out to be other than as described.