No focus peaking???

[LocalHero1953]

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But it still makes me sad that they have no choice but to go this route and concentrate on things like a solid block of polished aluminum

 

Incidentally, my guess is that this solid block of aluminium, despite the video and marketing guff about craftmanship, is actually one of the real innovations here. Forget the gnome of Wetzlar hand-polishing the case for 45 minutes, which probably adds little to the price after allowing for the crafted leather wrap that ISN'T fitted. He can be replaced by a machine anyway. But behind this is a CNC milling machine that cuts the body to the precise shape needed for the current design. What happens next year when (to pick an item from the wishlist at random) Leica decides to include a built-in EVF? Buy a bigger block of aluminium and reprogram the milling machine - no new complex jigs, moulds and sheet metal bending machines to be made. I'm guessing the next M will be made the same way, for practical manufacturing, not marketing reasons.

 

Before the T announcement, someone here speculated that the body might be made by 3D printer from liquid metal, which would have achieved the same manufacturing flexibility. They could have been right, though I suspect Leica kept away from such bleeding edge stuff - but in 10 years time, who knows?

 

OK, this is not innovative technology in helping take photos, but if it helps advance MY wishlist for improvements to the T, then I support it.

[AlanG]

I have no problem with the body being made by milling a block of aluminum if that helps them in some way. I generally don't care how the body is made as long as the camera works well.

[pico]

Before the T announcement, someone here speculated that the body might be made by 3D printer from liquid metal, which would have achieved the same manufacturing flexibility. They could have been right, though I suspect Leica kept away from such bleeding edge stuff - but in 10 years time, who knows?

 

I mentioned liquid metal, but using an injection molding technique. One virtue of such an approach is the final product is far more dimensionally precise than even CNC, and final polishing should not be necessary, especially if the design includes a texture. But I am not up-to-date on the cost of such.

[AlanG]

I don't agree with your opinion above, however: I think Leica has just taken a view on what its target customers want/need. Only time will tell whether they're right - I happen to think they've got it mostly right, even if I don't get one myself (still an open question).

 

I have never said that they got it wrong for those targeted customers. I am just pointing out that there is nothing special in the technology they are using which is mostly choosing off the shelf parts and subcontracting lens production. This is very similar to how IBM came up with the PC and why it was so easy to clone with the OS being readily available. It doesn't take a company with Leica's heritage to do this.

 

Here is a camera with a zoom lens and touchscreen interface and even fewer controls. They throw in a smartphone and optical image stabilization too.

 

http://www.samsung.com/global/microsite/galaxycamera/s4zoom/

 

The Galaxy NX also has few controls if you are looking for an interchangeable lens APS camera with built in EVF, a touchscreen, Android OS, and very few physical controls. They list 12 lenses for it and also give you a choice of a choosing the NX30 model with more traditional controls and additional features. Plus several other NX models it seems. (I don't really know much about these but they certainly seem to be covering a lot of bases for this target market.)

 

http://www.samsung.com/global/microsite/galaxycamera/nx/

[tomasis7]

Have you been in a GT3? I have. But all of this is just crazy. There is no similarity in concept with Leica. The GT3 has lots more than the Carrera. It is not stripped down to the minimum... which would be the case on a race car and a few "stripped" sports car models. (Ferrari F40)

 

Accessories - 911 GT3 - All 911 Models - Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG

 

So when we have exhausted anything to say about the T, car discussions break out.

 

Look, the T has removed a lot of things for its simplicity. If you want to pay extra for that over other models out there.... GO FOR IT!!! But you won't be gaining higher performance as in an F40.

 

you miss the point all time.

 

it is about driving experience. GT3 is more fun than Carrera. GT3RS is even better. GT3 RSR is the state of art.

 

I look at cameras in same way.

 

Gt3RS beat F40 on track hand down. :D

[AlanG]

you miss the point all time.

 

 

I am truly sorry for that. The F 40 is from 1987. I'd expect there to be some faster cars by now. I guess a Leica T would look nice on the seat of either car. Happy motoring.

[jonoslack]

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And yes some find this approach OK and will like the T despite having to pay 8 times more for it than for a Nex 6. But consider that it is Sony (and others) that have done the heavy lifting and we should acknowledge their amazing contributions and thank them, not call it a "plastic acne covered camera." Have you ever thought about how much Sony gives you for $524 and how they got advanced and efficient enough to do that?

 

Hi Alan

I'm wondering why you are so determined (and spend so much time) writing off the T. Of course, we all understand your points.

 

Incidentally, in the UK The NEX 6 is discontinued, but even now, it's about a third of the price of a T body. (hardly 1/8th price)

 

But my point is I wonder why you are evangelising against the camera with quite so much gusto - you must have spent hours and hours castigating the T on this forum alone. I'd like to understand why you bother?

[IkarusJohn]

I am truly sorry for that. The F 40 is from 1987. I'd expect there to be some faster cars by now. I guess a Leica T would look nice on the seat of either car. Happy motoring.

 

I recall Top Gear lining up an F40 against modern equivalents, and it was still quicker off the line.

 

I've had focus peaking on a couple of cameras and I loved the idea - watching the area of best focus thicken as you stopped down, and move backwards and forwards as you focussed was intriguing. But (you knew this was coming), it never really delivered that crisp, sharp, accurate focus I got with Leica's good old optical rangefinder coupling. Looking back, it also didn't really match my confidence with a fresnal ring or split ring focussing on my Nikons ...

[AlanG]

Hi Alan

I'm wondering why you are so determined (and spend so much time) writing off the T. Of course, we all understand your points.

 

 

It's a hobby and I figure I am somewhat entertaining. I'll stop when I get a new girlfriend.

 

My basic issue is I think a simple APS camera like the T with a kit zoom and EVF should sell for $1500 tops. Not $4200. I don't care who makes it. This isn't 2003.

 

As for the price of the Nex 6... Amazon has it for $523.99 with 16-50 and free shipping. This is 1/8 of the $4200 price minus a dollar of the T with EVF and zoom. Peculiarly if you order the Nex 6 body alone, you'll pay about $33 more.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-Compact-Interchangeable-Digital-16-50mm/dp/B0096W1OKS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1399511617&sr=8-1&keywords=nex+6

[jmahto]

It's a hobby and I figure I am somewhat entertaining. I'll stop when I get a new girlfriend.

 

My basic issue is I think a simple APS camera like the T with a kit zoom and EVF should sell for $1500 tops. Not $4200. I don't care who makes it. This isn't 2003.

 

As for the price of the Nex 6... Amazon has it for $523.99 with 16-50 and free shipping. This is 1/8 of the $4200 price minus a dollar of the T with EVF and zoom. Peculiarly if you order the Nex 6 body alone, you'll pay about $33 more.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-Compact-Interchangeable-Digital-16-50mm/dp/B0096W1OKS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1399511617&sr=8-1&keywords=nex+6

 

Comparing Sony zoom with Leica T kit lens is not correct. Maybe we need to compare the Zeiss E mount lenses with Leica T lenses. Of course at the end no doubt Leica will be more expensive, but when was that not the case.

BTW, I do have Sony NEX6 with 16-50zoom. Its ok, not great. I have it since it is very compact and good enough for casual shooting.

[jdlaing]

It's a hobby and I figure I am somewhat entertaining. I'll stop when I get a new girlfriend.

 

My basic issue is I think a simple APS camera like the T with a kit zoom and EVF should sell for $1500 tops. Not $4200. I don't care who makes it. This isn't 2003.

 

As for the price of the Nex 6... Amazon has it for $523.99 with 16-50 and free shipping. This is 1/8 of the $4200 price minus a dollar of the T with EVF and zoom. Peculiarly if you order the Nex 6 body alone, you'll pay about $33 more.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-Compact-Interchangeable-Digital-16-50mm/dp/B0096W1OKS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1399511617&sr=8-1&keywords=nex+6

 

But it won't have a red dot.

[AlanG]

BTW, I do have Sony NEX6 with 16-50zoom. Its ok, not great. I have it since it is very compact and good enough for casual shooting.

 

Yes I bought it for convenience not for pixel peeping. I have shot jobs with it and the clients have been pleased. These were mostly walk around shots of restaurants, nightlife, and other regional amenities to advertise condos. E.g. why you'd want to live there. Considering mostly web usage, the files were massive overkill in detail. I was pretty inconspicuous working this way and it is very nice to carry such lightweight gear. The Nex is orders of magnitude better than the $25,000 Kodak DCS 460 that I used to shoot jobs with.

[spylaw4]

It's a hobby and I figure I am somewhat entertaining. I'll stop when I get a new girlfriend.

 

 

Please find a new girlfriend quickly!

 

IMO your "entertainment" value is by now somewhat diminished.

[jaapv]

How can he find a girlfriend when sitting behind a computer typing away?

[Steve P]

How can he find a girlfriend when sitting behind a computer typing away?

 

Match.com?

[jaapv]

Yes- but he would have to leave our forum for a short while....

[spylaw4]

Yes- but he would have to leave our forum for a short while....

 

[mwilliamsphotography]

I must say, there is just as much evangelizing FOR this camera, as there are the few voices questioning it.

 

Perhaps more indicative of the larger picture, than just this new offering from Leica?

 

Personally, I think the embattled camera industry is either fast becoming innovatively bankrupt, or is profoundly confused … and is throwing anything against the wall to see what sticks. From Sony's head-spinning "Cavalcade of Cameras", to stripping down a camera and using "Overly Affected" marketing speak which for all practical purposes subverts the adage "Less is More" to simply mean "Less Cost More".

 

> Allow use of M lenses renowned for wide-open optical performance, and provide less focus options to use them.

 

> Include touch screen technology, and fewer ways to use it than a common cell phone provides.

 

> Allow the possibility of using the LCD to compose/shoot with, or use hand-held longer lenses with an EVF, and no image stabilization.

 

The notion that center focus/ recompose is "okay" because it was okay in past, discounts the fact that it's been a crusade by most every camera maker because … it isn't okay.

 

While Sony has achieved the ability to move the focus point anywhere in the frame, including the very edge, they have yet to make moving it a simple task like the DSLRs did 10 years ago. Hasselblad's True Focus APL (Absolute Position Lock) is perhaps the only focus innovation in years … and one that anyone can do without reading the manual every time you pick up the camera.

 

Sony makes it to complex, while Leica's solution is to eliminate it altogether. Neither is satisfactory. At least with the Sony one can practice, practice, practice and hopefully get faster at it, but with this Leica that isn't even an option.

 

Perhaps it all comes down to the fact that none of these solutions have the life span of a May Fly. That precise milled block of aluminum hand polished to perfection will barely be warmed by the hand before it is obsolete … a beautiful shell stuffed with rancid technology.

 

It may be that we will never get really good with any of these tools because they are replaced before we can.

 

We profess that what we have is good enough, but continue swooning at every new release then bickering to the high heavens for or against the latest itteration of this or that.

 

Horses for Courses, YMMV, IMHO, Your 2¢ Verses My 2¢, … LOL!

 

- Marc

[jaapv]

Believe me - less focus systems? In my experience other focus systems are far superior to focus peaking at the focal lengths that comprise the M system.

Let's first see what the focusing on the T is really like.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Steve P]

I must say, there is just as much evangelizing FOR this camera, as there are the few voices questioning it.

 

Well, it is an internet forum after all.

You make some well reasoned and interesting points. I'm not sure terms like 'stuffed with rancid technology', although pithy, are entirely accurate, but it made me smile though.