Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
StephenPatterson

No focus peaking???

Recommended Posts

Saying that most of its buyers do not really need these things and just want what is "essential" is just a marketing cop-out for lack of the ability to truly incorporate state of the art technology, let alone innovate any of it.

 

Well, I only bought my first Leica a little over 30 years ago, so I can't answer for much of your post

(though it was an early M3).

 

I don't agree with your opinion above, however: I think Leica has just taken a view on what its target customers want/need. Only time will tell whether they're right - I happen to think they've got it mostly right, even if I don't get one myself (still an open question).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But it still makes me sad that they have no choice but to go this route and concentrate on things like a solid block of polished aluminum

 

Incidentally, my guess is that this solid block of aluminium, despite the video and marketing guff about craftmanship, is actually one of the real innovations here. Forget the gnome of Wetzlar hand-polishing the case for 45 minutes, which probably adds little to the price after allowing for the crafted leather wrap that ISN'T fitted. He can be replaced by a machine anyway. But behind this is a CNC milling machine that cuts the body to the precise shape needed for the current design. What happens next year when (to pick an item from the wishlist at random) Leica decides to include a built-in EVF? Buy a bigger block of aluminium and reprogram the milling machine - no new complex jigs, moulds and sheet metal bending machines to be made. I'm guessing the next M will be made the same way, for practical manufacturing, not marketing reasons.

 

Before the T announcement, someone here speculated that the body might be made by 3D printer from liquid metal, which would have achieved the same manufacturing flexibility. They could have been right, though I suspect Leica kept away from such bleeding edge stuff - but in 10 years time, who knows?

 

OK, this is not innovative technology in helping take photos, but if it helps advance MY wishlist for improvements to the T, then I support it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have no problem with the body being made by milling a block of aluminum if that helps them in some way. I generally don't care how the body is made as long as the camera works well.

Edited by AlanG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Before the T announcement, someone here speculated that the body might be made by 3D printer from liquid metal, which would have achieved the same manufacturing flexibility. They could have been right, though I suspect Leica kept away from such bleeding edge stuff - but in 10 years time, who knows?

 

I mentioned liquid metal, but using an injection molding technique. One virtue of such an approach is the final product is far more dimensionally precise than even CNC, and final polishing should not be necessary, especially if the design includes a texture. But I am not up-to-date on the cost of such.

Edited by pico

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't agree with your opinion above, however: I think Leica has just taken a view on what its target customers want/need. Only time will tell whether they're right - I happen to think they've got it mostly right, even if I don't get one myself (still an open question).

 

I have never said that they got it wrong for those targeted customers. I am just pointing out that there is nothing special in the technology they are using which is mostly choosing off the shelf parts and subcontracting lens production. This is very similar to how IBM came up with the PC and why it was so easy to clone with the OS being readily available. It doesn't take a company with Leica's heritage to do this.

 

Here is a camera with a zoom lens and touchscreen interface and even fewer controls. They throw in a smartphone and optical image stabilization too.

 

http://www.samsung.com/global/microsite/galaxycamera/s4zoom/

 

The Galaxy NX also has few controls if you are looking for an interchangeable lens APS camera with built in EVF, a touchscreen, Android OS, and very few physical controls. They list 12 lenses for it and also give you a choice of a choosing the NX30 model with more traditional controls and additional features. Plus several other NX models it seems. (I don't really know much about these but they certainly seem to be covering a lot of bases for this target market.)

 

http://www.samsung.com/global/microsite/galaxycamera/nx/

Edited by AlanG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Advertisement (gone after registration)

You should not be baffled since I explained myself numerous times including saying I understand to whom this camera is targeted... and have no problem with that. It does not mean that I think this is a good camera for its price regardless of whether people buy it in droves.

 

And I can see why Leica would do this, which brings up a lot of what has bothered me about Leica for about 40 years or so. They simply moved from their primary focus of making very fine state of the art cameras targeted to the needs of pros to primarily focusing on well to do enthusiasts, collectors, and those who may not be very camera savvy and just buy a rebadged Panny or a T primarily for the Leica name. Whereas Canon and Nikon have really focused on the needs of pros, despite making all kinds of other cameras too. (Many of which I am not especially excited by either.) In my case, when I was a large format architectural photographer, it never occurred to me that someday I'd be only working in 35mm. But now thanks to Canon's technology and special lenses, that is what I use. Meanwhile Leica is only now making a full frame camera that has live view, but still just has a very narrow selection of lenses for it... however fine they may be. And no AF or IS.

 

I understand the marketing and competitive forces that have caused Leica to do this and I am happy they have better financial prospects than they've had for a long time. But it still makes me sad that they have no choice but to go this route and concentrate on things like a solid block of polished aluminum and newly designed neck strap attachments rather than being able to push the technology much.

 

And despite what some of you think about "ticking boxes," things like having the ability to lock on a specific eye and keep it in focus, better IS, higher ISO abilities, better dynamic range, video features, are some of the more interesting and useful things resulting from companies pushing the technology. And we are still at the early stages. Leica does not develop any of that kind of technology and often is slow at incorporating it.

 

Saying that most of its buyers do not really need these things and just want what is "essential" is just a marketing cop-out for lack of the ability to truly incorporate state of the art technology, let alone innovate any of it. They try to make a feature out of what they can't do. Yes, if they have a nice touchscreen interface for what features they do have, that is great.

 

And yes some find this approach OK and will like the T despite having to pay 8 times more for it than for a Nex 6. But consider that it is Sony (and others) that have done the heavy lifting and we should acknowledge their amazing contributions and thank them, not call it a "plastic acne covered camera." Have you ever thought about how much Sony gives you for $524 and how they got advanced and efficient enough to do that?

 

An excellent post Alan - well said!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Have you been in a GT3? I have. But all of this is just crazy. There is no similarity in concept with Leica. The GT3 has lots more than the Carrera. It is not stripped down to the minimum... which would be the case on a race car and a few "stripped" sports car models. (Ferrari F40)

 

Accessories - 911 GT3 - All 911 Models - Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG

 

So when we have exhausted anything to say about the T, car discussions break out.

 

Look, the T has removed a lot of things for its simplicity. If you want to pay extra for that over other models out there.... GO FOR IT!!! But you won't be gaining higher performance as in an F40.

 

you miss the point all time.

 

it is about driving experience. GT3 is more fun than Carrera. GT3RS is even better. GT3 RSR is the state of art.

 

I look at cameras in same way.

 

Gt3RS beat F40 on track hand down.

:D

Edited by tomasis7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
you miss the point all time.

 

 

I am truly sorry for that. The F 40 is from 1987. I'd expect there to be some faster cars by now. I guess a Leica T would look nice on the seat of either car. Happy motoring.

Edited by AlanG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And yes some find this approach OK and will like the T despite having to pay 8 times more for it than for a Nex 6. But consider that it is Sony (and others) that have done the heavy lifting and we should acknowledge their amazing contributions and thank them, not call it a "plastic acne covered camera." Have you ever thought about how much Sony gives you for $524 and how they got advanced and efficient enough to do that?

 

Hi Alan

I'm wondering why you are so determined (and spend so much time) writing off the T. Of course, we all understand your points.

 

Incidentally, in the UK The NEX 6 is discontinued, but even now, it's about a third of the price of a T body. (hardly 1/8th price)

 

But my point is I wonder why you are evangelising against the camera with quite so much gusto - you must have spent hours and hours castigating the T on this forum alone. I'd like to understand why you bother?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am truly sorry for that. The F 40 is from 1987. I'd expect there to be some faster cars by now. I guess a Leica T would look nice on the seat of either car. Happy motoring.

 

I recall Top Gear lining up an F40 against modern equivalents, and it was still quicker off the line.

 

I've had focus peaking on a couple of cameras and I loved the idea - watching the area of best focus thicken as you stopped down, and move backwards and forwards as you focussed was intriguing. But (you knew this was coming), it never really delivered that crisp, sharp, accurate focus I got with Leica's good old optical rangefinder coupling. Looking back, it also didn't really match my confidence with a fresnal ring or split ring focussing on my Nikons ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi Alan

I'm wondering why you are so determined (and spend so much time) writing off the T. Of course, we all understand your points.

 

 

It's a hobby and I figure I am somewhat entertaining. I'll stop when I get a new girlfriend.

 

My basic issue is I think a simple APS camera like the T with a kit zoom and EVF should sell for $1500 tops. Not $4200. I don't care who makes it. This isn't 2003.

 

As for the price of the Nex 6... Amazon has it for $523.99 with 16-50 and free shipping. This is 1/8 of the $4200 price minus a dollar of the T with EVF and zoom. Peculiarly if you order the Nex 6 body alone, you'll pay about $33 more.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-Compact-Interchangeable-Digital-16-50mm/dp/B0096W1OKS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1399511617&sr=8-1&keywords=nex+6

Edited by AlanG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's a hobby and I figure I am somewhat entertaining. I'll stop when I get a new girlfriend.

 

My basic issue is I think a simple APS camera like the T with a kit zoom and EVF should sell for $1500 tops. Not $4200. I don't care who makes it. This isn't 2003.

 

As for the price of the Nex 6... Amazon has it for $523.99 with 16-50 and free shipping. This is 1/8 of the $4200 price minus a dollar of the T with EVF and zoom. Peculiarly if you order the Nex 6 body alone, you'll pay about $33 more.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-Compact-Interchangeable-Digital-16-50mm/dp/B0096W1OKS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1399511617&sr=8-1&keywords=nex+6

 

Comparing Sony zoom with Leica T kit lens is not correct. Maybe we need to compare the Zeiss E mount lenses with Leica T lenses. Of course at the end no doubt Leica will be more expensive, but when was that not the case.

BTW, I do have Sony NEX6 with 16-50zoom. Its ok, not great. I have it since it is very compact and good enough for casual shooting.

Edited by jmahto

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's a hobby and I figure I am somewhat entertaining. I'll stop when I get a new girlfriend.

 

My basic issue is I think a simple APS camera like the T with a kit zoom and EVF should sell for $1500 tops. Not $4200. I don't care who makes it. This isn't 2003.

 

As for the price of the Nex 6... Amazon has it for $523.99 with 16-50 and free shipping. This is 1/8 of the $4200 price minus a dollar of the T with EVF and zoom. Peculiarly if you order the Nex 6 body alone, you'll pay about $33 more.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-Compact-Interchangeable-Digital-16-50mm/dp/B0096W1OKS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1399511617&sr=8-1&keywords=nex+6

 

But it won't have a red dot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BTW, I do have Sony NEX6 with 16-50zoom. Its ok, not great. I have it since it is very compact and good enough for casual shooting.

 

Yes I bought it for convenience not for pixel peeping. I have shot jobs with it and the clients have been pleased. These were mostly walk around shots of restaurants, nightlife, and other regional amenities to advertise condos. E.g. why you'd want to live there. Considering mostly web usage, the files were massive overkill in detail. I was pretty inconspicuous working this way and it is very nice to carry such lightweight gear. The Nex is orders of magnitude better than the $25,000 Kodak DCS 460 that I used to shoot jobs with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's a hobby and I figure I am somewhat entertaining. I'll stop when I get a new girlfriend.

 

 

Please find a new girlfriend quickly!

 

IMO your "entertainment" value is by now somewhat diminished.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...