X Vario reduced price

[MarkP]

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I don’t think it would be smart by anybody to buy a Leica for status

 

 

Exactly. Unlike a Rolex most people haven't got a clue of what it is or what it means.

 

 

 

I advise a trophy wife. A Chanel bikini beats any Luigi case.

 

 

 

 

And I think you miss the principle of limited returns related to an exponential price increase in high-end technology in general.

 

and the law of diminishing returns has always applied to Leica.

[Guest]

So if the Chanel bikini lady wants a good camera, you get her a XV.

[Guest]

It could very well be, that the first ever to write XV was a forum member.

So much better than X Vario, making a tiny difference in overall sales.

 

If the name for the model following the 240 would be found by asking forum members (no pool, but brainstorming) a camera rendering red very well will sport the red dot and have a successful name, too.

[erl]

So if the Chanel bikini lady wants a good camera, you get her a XV.

Only if she likes the colour!

[imants]

All camera manufacturers seem to struggle in one aspect or another

 

I am sure that is not the intention of the T system. It is not a complementary body for the M set of lenses. It is a different product for a different niche market. Smaller and lighter, and cheaper, than any alternative in the M system. Based on AF lenses, and designed for them.

If the auto focus is slowish the camera no matter how good the files are will be in the also ran category. Like them or not a decent DSLR auto focusing speed is the minimum benchmark ....... ah the Achilles heel of the mirrorless game.

 

The XV's focusing system is neither here nor there and that what puts it in the mediocre category.

[jaapv]

So it is not brand specific - mirrorless/compact cameras in general are slow. Wrong choice by user, thus. I don’t like AF anyway… I am more interested in the manual focus ability of the T.

[CalArts 99]

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I don’t think it would be smart by anybody to buy a Leica for status - the number of people that are suitably impressed is rather small to nil in my experience. I advise a trophy wife. A Chanel bikini beats any Luigi case.

 

In many other universes, owning a Leica is the smart way to express status. In my own backyard, Leica is a status symbol and a well-understood one.

 

"The latest status symbol in Hollywood, it seems, is not the 8 p.m. reservation at the Tower Bar, but the Leica M-system range finder, a retro-chic camera that has become the accessory of choice for the celebrity class on red carpets, film sets or vacation.

 

“It is a restrained fashion statement: the black body, the beautiful red dot that says ‘Leica,’ ” said Edward Earle, the curator of collections at the International Center of Photography in New York. “I liken it to the wonderful Lacoste shirt. They last a long time, they are precision made and they simply don’t go out of style.”

 

As an objet, then, the Leica is bling without the bling. No wonder it is the perfect accessory for in-the-know Hollywood actors, who tend to favor a low-key, sporty, Malibu-style elegance (the Land Rover, the Rolex Submariner) over flash."

 

We may not feel that a Leica has anything to do with our status in our own personal world, but I think we do have to admit that it is indeed a status symbol in other worlds.

[imants]

Most make wrong choices at one time or another, though digging a deeper hole is not smart................ As more and more general users head towards the smartphone that niche market of a auto camera with a great manual over ride system would be welcome.

[jaapv]

I do not think those other worlds are meant in this discussion. In my world they do not even notice the brand of my fountain pen…

[erl]

What must be accepted is that we all live in different, sometimes overlapping, worlds! My world is private to me, as is everyone's to them, save for the bits we choose to share.

 

Saying things like "why did you buy that" or "keeping up with the Jones's" or similar disparaging comments are out of place simply because the 'commenter' is in another world.

 

Most comments on the 'investment' value of, for example a Leica, or any other object make the inevitable mistake of not understanding what 'investment' means. They invariably relate it to dollar values. That demonstrates a lack of appreciation.

 

Even a 'designer wife' need not be a mistake.

[CalArts 99]

I do not think those other worlds are meant in this discussion. In my world they do not even notice the brand of my fountain pen…

 

I wish it were the same in my world. It's not really fun having to deal with: 1) hipsters giving me the thumbs and wanting to talk "Leica" 2) old men wanting to talk about "cameras of years long passed" 3) Wealthy movie industry types and celebrities asking advice about buying Leica.

 

I think before the internet, it wasn't quite this way. Now everybody seems to know Leica. The red dot has become a pretty well understood logo in most all urban areas these days.

[erl]

I think before the internet, it wasn't quite this way. Now everybody seems to know Leica. The red dot has become a pretty well understood logo in most all urban areas these days.

 

I think it is more than the Red Dot. My 111f attracts more attention than any of my 'Red Dotted' cameras. I suspect it may be more to do with the generic retro look of the cameras. Because my 111f is chrome, it stands out more than my M's which are black, but I still think it is the retro factor, not the Red Dot, maybe.

[CalArts 99]

I think it is more than the Red Dot. My 111f attracts more attention than any of my 'Red Dotted' cameras. I suspect it may be more to do with the generic retro look of the cameras. Because my 111f is chrome, it stands out more than my M's which are black, but I still think it is the retro factor, not the Red Dot, maybe.

 

That could very well be a big part of it these days, too (the popular retro thing.)

[MarkP]

Good point.

 

I am often asked about my camera but mostly by people who are fascinated by it as perhaps being an old film camera (rather than 'retro') or as a piece of extraordinary industrial design. It's rare that any of them know of Leica. Oh, and none of mine have a red dot.

[euston]

In many other universes, owning a Leica is the smart way to express status. In my own backyard, Leica is a status symbol and a well-understood one.

 

 

We may not feel that a Leica has anything to do with our status in our own personal world, but I think we do have to admit that it is indeed a status symbol in other worlds.

 

 

The world that some of you inhabit is, as you suggest, very different from mine. Could there be a New World/Old World dichotomy at work here, I wonder, or is it simply the difference between people who respond to style and those who respond to substance?

 

Be that as it may, in my world the Leica brand is more likely to mean binoculars and telescopes than cameras - in some cases, for professional reasons, laboratory equipment. If Leica cameras figure at all in the minds of my circle of friends and acquaintances they are likely to think of them as a style of camera that was out-dated almost fifty years ago. Even those of them who are keen photographers know next to nothing about 21st century Leica cameras. The only professional photographer I know personally uses Canon exclusively. Many of these people are not short of a bob or two but if you were to suggest that there was cachet in owning a Leica camera, they wouldn’t know what you were talking about.

 

I doubt whether posters to this forum are Leica’s core market. Most of us probably don’t respond to luxury brand marketing, at least, not positively. We are bycatch trawled up in a marketing net designed to harvest the aspirant new rich in emergent markets, using the high profile inhabitants of CalArts’s world as groundbait. [i’m warming to this fishy metaphor so I’d better leave it there lest I swim too far with it.]

 

I will readily admit to a certain degree of brand loyalty but I don’t think they can sell me anything just because it’s a Leica. I have been a Leica owner for a long while and the M9 was only the second Leica that I bought. I didn’t need any of the electronically assisted M series film cameras. I didn’t buy the M8 and I won’t be buying the M (Typ 240). The M9 is the digital M for me and, thanks to its brilliantly designed zoom lens, the X Vario substitutes for it nicely when I don’t want to be changing lenses.

 

I have very much enjoyed using the X Vario. I bought it on what for me are its merits. It does what I bought it to do and I am pleased with the results I get from it. I don’t care whether or not its specifications conform to some ideal of perfection. I don’t care who the target market is. I don’t care whether the X Vario fits in with Leica’s strategic plans for the company, or whether those plans are the right ones. That is not why I buy a camera.

[rob_w]

Thanks Euston. Very useful comments, thank you.

 

I don't see why you should have to defend your choice against trolls who have all kinds of opinions but have not used the X-Vario in earnest.

 

Frankly, I don't need opinions no matter how smartly expressed. I would like to read real experiences -- either positive or negative -- from users who own the camera and use it. I am fed up with skipping past any number of argumentative smart alecs to get to the real substance of a thread.

 

For those opinionated ones -- if you don't like the X-Vario, for whatever reason, okay! But clear off and let the rest of us have a meaningful discussion.

[thighslapper]

I have very much enjoyed using the X Vario. I bought it on what for me are its merits. It does what I bought it to do and I am pleased with the results I get from it. I don’t care whether or not its specifications conform to some ideal of perfection. I don’t care who the target market is. I don’t care whether the X Vario fits in with Leica’s strategic plans for the company, or whether those plans are the right ones. That is not why I buy a camera.

 

Can we put this in the FAQ section so we can cut and paste it as a standard reply to the usual 'expert' carpers and moaners...... who don't have the camera but have read a review about it or used it for 5 minutes in a camera shop..... ?

 

Satisfied Leica users can substitite "X Vario" for whatever the 'crap leica camera' flavour of the month is ...... very useful .....

[Ecaton]

Thanks Euston. Very useful comments, thank you.

 

I don't see why you should have to defend your choice against trolls who have all kinds of opinions but have not used the X-Vario in earnest.

 

Frankly, I don't need opinions no matter how smartly expressed. I would like to read real experiences -- either positive or negative -- from users who own the camera and use it. I am fed up with skipping past any number of argumentative smart alecs to get to the real substance of a thread.

 

For those opinionated ones -- if you don't like the X-Vario, for whatever reason, okay! But clear off and let the rest of us have a meaningful discussion.

 

Beating on the XV means criticizing Leica and its management. They should focus their limited resources on lenses and cameras which matter, such as the X1 and M9 did in 2009. XV owners are way too oversensitive and insecure. Enjoy your camera. If I listened to fora chatter I would never have bought all three Sigma DP Merrills.

[jaapv]

I’m amazed at your insight about which cameras “matter”…

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[earleygallery]

Thanks Euston. Very useful comments, thank you.

 

I don't see why you should have to defend your choice against trolls who have all kinds of opinions but have not used the X-Vario in earnest.

 

So one is a troll if one holds a negative opinion?

 

This thread really developed more into a conversation about Leica's apparent aims for the immediate future, rather than a specific camera.

 

I won't restate what their known aims are but it seems to me that they won't achieve them unless they can make extremely desirable products which live up to the Leica brand name, and don't find the need to discount their prices relatively soon after a new products release.

 

It's not about defending ones own choices. Those who bought the XV did so with full knowledge of exactly what they were buying, the specs worked for them, and that's great.