Lazytiger Posted March 14, 2014 Share #1 Posted March 14, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello! I hope you don't mind if I ask for the help of this community. I take photographs for 30 years, starting with a Minolta, then Nikon F3, Hasselblad, etc., went digital with d80, d7100, finally ending up with a Ricoh GR, a Nikon d800 and a bunch of gold-ring lenses. During all this time I always wanted a Leica rangefinder. No idea why, they just seemed so beautiful to me. And I've seen many great shots taken with them. But rationally I never could justify buying one. Other cameras always offered a lot more for much less. Now, here I am again looking at the M 240. With a Lux 50, SEM 21, and one of the older 90s, Summicron or Elmarit-M. That would be my set for 90% of everything I shoot. There's always my d800 for the rest (the Ricoh needs to go anyway, don't like its brutal drawing). I have the money ready, camera and lenses are available at my local dealer, still I am hesitating. Sony a7r is as small, but lighter and has a phantastic 36mp chip like my d800. To my eyes it is ugly and and my ears find it loud. But my brain keeps telling me that it's got AF, integrated EVF, a 50% higher resolution, sensor cleaning and is 3 times cheaper. Then there is the RX1r, similar IQ as the M, not as ugly as the a7 and completely silent. But, of course, a one trick pony. To keep a long story short: Please convince me to buy that stupid M, otherwise I'll be stuck in this struggle between my heart and my brain forever! What made you go for the M and how do you think today about your decision? How has your photography changed? And finally: Do I maybe just have to accept the irrational as a major driving force in my pity existence, tell my brain to shut up and buy it? Thanks for reading all of this, and thanks in advance for your answers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 Hi Lazytiger, Take a look here Someone please convince me to buy the M!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Mr_Jones Posted March 14, 2014 Share #2 Posted March 14, 2014 Yes, tell your brain to shut up and buy it. I tried the A7 and it's not a patch on the experience of an M240 with the 50 Lux ASPH. That combination is my camera nirvana. It's the law of diminishing returns, you pay an enormous amount more for a relatively small increase in performance. However in the case of the A7 the shutter is really not nice, it's unpleasant to have to use an evf all the time, the build quality and finishing is so far below the M it's an insult to compare them and if Sony come up with a 1.4 lens it will probably be huge. Auto focus is a bourgeois concept anyway! and I'm not sure the A7 does have sensor cleaning. Are you convinced yet? You should run to your Leica dealer and buy the M240 and 50 Lux now. What colour are you getting and have you chosen a case/bag yet? It's a rangefinder, the rest are just mirror less cameras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsprow Posted March 14, 2014 Share #3 Posted March 14, 2014 I believe it's mainly a matter as to whether or not you like the rangefinder focusing experience. Since I've been doing so for several decades (my first was the M3DS, which I still have), it's second nature and I find the slight added time for focusing coupled with the great Leica lenses results in significantly better images than my Nikon D4. I personally do not use any M for serious sports photography or with lenses longer than 90mm or shorter than 24mm. I had the EVF on the M for a week with a Nikon 200mm f:2 before deciding it was not for me and back it went. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted March 14, 2014 Share #4 Posted March 14, 2014 Hello! ...To keep a long story short: Please convince me to buy that stupid M, ... Welcome, Lazytiger. (My bold emphasis) I read your argument with interest until I reached the above sentence. No, of course you don't want a 'stupid' camera, of any make, so stick with what you have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 14, 2014 Share #5 Posted March 14, 2014 Welcome. When I read a post like your I know it is useless to provide arguments. You’ll go out and buy the stuff next week, regardless what we say. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannybuoy Posted March 14, 2014 Share #6 Posted March 14, 2014 Funnily enough I think I might be on the verge of selling my M and 50 Lux Asph. I can try and persuade you to buy that one :-) seriously though, I'd love to sell it outside of eBay to avoid the nasty kick in the wallet they'd give me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Jones Posted March 14, 2014 Share #7 Posted March 14, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Double check the ebay fees for those kind of sales. Not as painful as selling cheaper items. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayewing Posted March 14, 2014 Share #8 Posted March 14, 2014 I see that the OP is an experienced photographer but has he actually used a rangefinder? Before spending a large sum of money I would suggest at least an extensive demonstration from a good Leica dealer or preferably hiring a Leica for a few days to see if it is right for him. The rangefinder is the essence of the Leica M series so unless the user is happy with the rangefinder method of manual focus it would be better to look elsewhere. Buying a Leica rangefinder is in many ways an irrational act, but so is buying an expensive sports car or handmade watch. For many the pleasure of owning and using a Leica justifies the high price. In my own case I think there was an element of nostalgia in my decision to buy a M9 and later an M240 as I had many happy memories of my M2 bought second hand back in the 1970s and used for over 30 years. The urge to buy a Leica M can be very insistent so provided you are happy using a rangefinder and you can afford it you might as well get one and enjoy it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcraf Posted March 14, 2014 Share #9 Posted March 14, 2014 Hello! Other cameras always offered a lot more for much less. A lot more what? Given that for most of us it's about image quality, with its sublime lenses the M system offers 'a lot more' of that than most other systems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithlaban.co.uk Posted March 14, 2014 Share #10 Posted March 14, 2014 Hello! To keep a long story short: Please convince me to buy that stupid M, otherwise I'll be stuck in this struggle between my heart and my brain forever! Your screen name says it all. You need to take responsibility for your own decisions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted March 14, 2014 Share #11 Posted March 14, 2014 Hello! .... .... During all this time I always wanted a Leica rangefinder..... .... <SonyA7>... it's got AF, integrated EVF, a 50% higher resolution, sensor cleaning and is 3 times cheaper. Or you want a Leica rangefinder, or you want AF integrated EVF etc... that's the main problem you must solve (50% higher res. imho doesn't count at all) What made you go for the M and how do you think today about your decision? For me, frankly a trivial reason... I have always (30 years around) had M Leicas ... I had a M8 6 years old.... M has something more... not much different from the old times in which I changed my M2 with a M4... How has your photography changed? No (for the above reason) And finally: Do I maybe just have to accept the irrational as a major driving force in my pity existence, tell my brain to shut up and buy it? Yes : it is pleasant to have... but is also a camera capable of very good pictures so you won't have only the "buyer's orgasm"... you probably will enjoy it REALLY... And Welcome to the Forum, of course !! (and, in case your real desire is to feel the pleasure of uncertainess, you can prolungue it for some time... is almost 100% sure that in 1 month or little more a new Leica will appear, not rangefinder but with AF and maybe integrated EVF, surely not FF, surely cheaper than M (half ?), almost surely a "real" Leica and not a Panasonic derivation.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonki-M Posted March 14, 2014 Share #12 Posted March 14, 2014 don't know about convincing you, but i am extremely happy with my decision to move to rangefinder. absolutely no regret. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazytiger Posted March 14, 2014 Author Share #13 Posted March 14, 2014 Wow - a lot of answers ion a short time. Thank you all very much! @ Mr_Jones: Well spoken and very helpful! I hope I'll feel the same about M and 50 Lux. About color: Guess I'm a chrome body and black lenses guy... @ wda: No offense intended! I called her stupid, as I would call a pretty woman stupid that's bugging me only because I cannot stop thinking about her @ jaapv: Probably true! But I'm none the less curious about the input of this experienced community. @ Dannybuoy: Going for a new one, but thanks. Why are you selling? @ ayewing: You're absolutely right. My local Leica dealer has earned his chance to convince me. But I know that he's probably damn good at it and more importantly I know myself: Once I'm in there I'll never leave the place without the camera anyway. Can't imagine I'll hate the rangefinder. Never got to like the abstract controls of my Nikon and her "tunnel view". I like her speed and IQ and long lenses and everything. Thinking back, the camera I loved most was my bulky Hasselblad. 100% mechanical, rock solid build. Every shutter release was an artistic decision. Guess I'm after that feeling when looking at the M. @jcraf: I fully agree, M lenses IQ is awesome, otherwise I wouldn't consider spending that much money on it. @KeithL: No worries, just looking for input! The final decision will be all mine @ Luigi: Valid points, thanks! I like your very true line about the "pleasure of uncertainess" It is a kind of pleasure indeed. But I had enough of it now. You're right about Leica or AF, I didn't look at it this way. Can't imagine an M with AF. Wouldn't mind the 36mp though, if for cropping alone. Got spoiled by my d800 in this regard. Otherwise 24 is plenty! Unfortunately Leica T is not for me, since it'll be APS-C. @Tonki-M: Glad to hear this, thanks! Thanks again to everyone, you helped me a lot so far! Guess I'm quite close to enter that fancy, red-dotted shop downtown... only 30 years since I felt for the first time magically drawn towards a sexy M6 in a local dealer's shop window... Guess it's time to complete a journey! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
viramati Posted March 14, 2014 Share #14 Posted March 14, 2014 Since buying the A7 and FE55/1.8 my summilux 50 asph has been out the safe 2 or 3 times. I use my M almost exclusively with the 28 summicron, WATE and CV21/1.8. Who cares if a camera is ugly after all it is just a tool to make an image. I agree though about the shutter noise and depending on what you do this can be be an issue and I find for documentary work the leica is more discreet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth3kpl Posted March 14, 2014 Share #15 Posted March 14, 2014 Funnily enough I think I might be on the verge of selling my M and 50 Lux Asph. I can try and persuade you to buy that one :-) seriously though, I'd love to sell it outside of eBay to avoid the nasty kick in the wallet they'd give me. I'd be interested to hear of why you're selling it. Perhaps the OP would too. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazytiger Posted March 14, 2014 Author Share #16 Posted March 14, 2014 Since buying the A7 and FE55/1.8 my summilux 50 asph has been out the safe 2 or 3 times. I use my M almost exclusively with the 28 summicron, WATE and CV21/1.8. Who cares if a camera is ugly after all it is just a tool to make an image. I agree though about the shutter noise and depending on what you do this can be be an issue and I find for documentary work the leica is more discreet. Thanks, viramati! Do you use the 55 wide open or mostly stopped down? Wide open I see more character in the Lux, apart from the obvious 2/3 stops more. Stopped down to f4 I can't see any difference. But that's just a second hand oppinion based on other people's shots, so I'd appreciate your first hand experience. What are your experiences with the CV 21/1.8? I am torn between this lens and the SEM 21. Leaning towards the SEM because of size, weight and what I read about ultimate performance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
viramati Posted March 14, 2014 Share #17 Posted March 14, 2014 I suppose the lux my have more 'character' wide open but in real world use I find the FE55 to be just amazing either wide open or stopped down. It is incredibly sharp across the frame and I just find that I can 'hit' the focus so much easier with the Sony than with the lux especially wide open. I have had a lot of problems with my lux and it has been back to leica so many times and still back-focuses slightly. I just don't feel the price justifies the difference but that being said I find it very hard to accept the idea of selling the lux 50. As to the CV 21/1.8 I got it as my WATE is off being repaired/serviced and I wanted a super wide and a faster aperture. For it's price it is really a no brainer, wide open it is pin sharp in centre and pretty good on the corners stop down to 2.8 and it really shines (doesn't perform well on the edges on the A7). Yes it is big but I am really glad I added it to my lens collection. Maybe the SEM is abetter lens and if size is an issue and you don't need the faster aperture and you don't mind the fact that it costs 2 and half times the CV then go for it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
viramati Posted March 14, 2014 Share #18 Posted March 14, 2014 I'd be interested to hear of why you're selling it. Perhaps the OP would too. Pete Maybe he got the Sony A7 and FE55/1.8 like me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HV25 Posted March 14, 2014 Share #19 Posted March 14, 2014 What made me go for the M ? The unique combination of: (1) camera and lenses well capable of taking high quality pictures, (2) a camera that just 'feels great' to use and (3) a camera that requires your active involvement (e.g. no autofocus). What do I think today about my decision ? The best decision I took when it comes to cameras since buying a Nikon FE all these years ago. Every time I take my M240 up I can't help but smile because its so rewarding to use. And it makes me proud of the results because I feel that by using it I'm part of the process if that makes sense. Do you have to accept the irrational as a major driving force ? Yes ! I also own a D800 which frankly speaking is a better camera in some respects - but to me it feels like comparing apples and oranges. Its a question of personal preference and the M240 is great because it is such a different kind of experience. Hope that helps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffp Posted March 14, 2014 Share #20 Posted March 14, 2014 Why not buy an M9 and one lens to see how you get on with a rangefinder. The improvements of the M240 over the M9 are well documented so you can factor that into your decision when deciding whether to trade up. I did something similar when the M9 first came out - I bought an M7 and 50mm Summicron and loved it. I ended up accumulating more lenses (21mm f2.8, 28mm f2 and 90mm summicron apo) until an M9 became available. I can echo Viramati's sentiments re the a7 and 55mm f1.8 - simply amazing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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