marcg Posted February 6, 2014 Share #1 Posted February 6, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Leica M Type 240 Brand New Condition! | eBay He refuses to do collection. Says that he is worried about someone stealing the camera from him if there is a rendezvous. Later on he said that he was actually selling the camera for someone else and that person refused to allow it to be collected. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 Hi marcg, Take a look here Suspicious eBay sale. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
StephenPatterson Posted February 6, 2014 Share #2 Posted February 6, 2014 I'm not sure I see anything suspicious with this auction, as long as payment is made with paypal and not a direct wire or some other mechanism that by-passes the protection offered by ebay. The photos and description certainly look legit, and he wouldn't be the first person to sell a camera for someone else. I actually think his explanation for not wanting to deliver in person makes sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcg Posted February 6, 2014 Author Share #3 Posted February 6, 2014 Well some people must think that it's suspicious because it's a bit rum being 4 hours away with only £700 bid. Could be a nice opportunity for someone to buy and resell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted February 6, 2014 Share #4 Posted February 6, 2014 Well some people must think that it's suspicious because it's a bit rum being 4 hours away with only £700 bid. Could be a nice opportunity for someone to buy and resell. Possibly, but the real bids always come at the end. I agree it could be a good deal for someone, but I would never encourage anyone to buy a Leica with the sole purpose being a quick resell and I always encourage people to buy from a dealer they have a relationship with. Leica ownership should be a lifetime affair, and having a good dealer is as important as having good factory support. There are enough speculators out there, although thankfully not nearly as many as in the past thanks to sufficient supply. As for the seller I can see where he would want to ship and have a record of the item being received by the buyer. Also meeting in person opens up the possibility to refuse the item, for whatever reason. I think the seller is just trying to cover his bases. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted February 6, 2014 Share #5 Posted February 6, 2014 The seller has no history of camera equipment. The text is amateur. The sales have been really small Looks to me like a hacked account. eBay insurance should cover the buyer but in my years and years of dealing with eBay and other services, if it's too good to be true then it's not true. For sure you can get very good deals if you look around but no one selling this equipment would accept more then 20% off retail. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 6, 2014 Share #6 Posted February 6, 2014 The images do look comfortingly amateur, but it is an odd item to be found in this collection…. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted February 6, 2014 Share #7 Posted February 6, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) I wouldn't trust this sale. He's posting the camera Royal Mail 1st class which means if it gets 'lost' in the post, and he can produce a postal receipt, you may have issues with getting a refund from paypal. At the very least you'll have to exhaust a postal claim first and of course the item isn't insured so you'd get whatever the basic Royal Mail compensation is. Surely as a genuine seller you'd want to send such a valuable item by adequately insured carriage? The seller - if they intend taking paypal payment (and don't say once you've won the auction that their account has a problem and can you pay by bank transfer) could also be out to defraud paypal by closing down their account after the sale. His feedback is a bit odd too, lots of transactions with the same sellers, and he's only ever sold one item. If anyone here is enticed by the low price take a punt and prove me wrong! He could just be a very clueless seller but there are too many warning signs for me. Finally, there's no reserve. If the auction only goes to say £1000, do you REALLY think he'd let the camera go for that? He could walk into Red Dot or some other dealer this morning and get much much more than that! If it sounds too good to be true.......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
masjah Posted February 6, 2014 Share #8 Posted February 6, 2014 Leica M Type 240 Brand New Condition! | eBay He refuses to do collection. Says that he is worried about someone stealing the camera from him if there is a rendezvous. Later on he said that he was actually selling the camera for someone else and that person refused to allow it to be collected. I'm totally inexerienced with regard to ebay, but how can he on the one hand (in the advert) say he's selling because he's buying another M9, and on the other hand say to you that he's selling for someone else? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted February 6, 2014 Share #9 Posted February 6, 2014 Finally, there's no reserve. If the auction only goes to say £1000, do you REALLY think he'd let the camera go for that? He could walk into Red Dot or some other dealer this morning and get much much more than that! If it sounds too good to be true.......... That's actually the biggest red flag. Sure the buyer is probably protected by Paypal, but if this is a con who wants to be tied up with paperwork and claims? I believe buyers only have 40 days from the end of the auction to file a claim, and if the package is "lost in the mail", or the shipment is slow to go out the days can pass very quickly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted February 6, 2014 Share #10 Posted February 6, 2014 I'm totally inexerienced with regard to ebay, but how can he on the one hand (in the advert) say he's selling because he's buying another M9, and on the other hand say to you that he's selling for someone else? Good point John, although it doesn't actually say that in the listing, he must have replied to a direct question. Another missing piece in the puzzle! It's always good to read through listings a few times. He also says "I expect communication in regards to arranging the payment within 24 hours" - with Paypal there are no arrangements to make! I think paypal will suddenly become a request to transfer money to a bank account in Nigeria! Also postage is free! But he's happy to post to anywhere in the EU. Even at standard rates that will cost a fair amount. Why would you do that? For legal reasons - but of course I may be wrong, this is my most humble of opinions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevelap Posted February 6, 2014 Share #11 Posted February 6, 2014 I'm at a loose end this morning so I've been looking at this . I've asked a couple of questions to see if a response is forthcoming..... I agree it looks too good to be true. I was scammed once by a seller using Special Delivery (a genuine receipt obtained fraudulently, apparently). Despite involving Royal Mail security/Police/Ombudsman etc, etc I got nowhere. Buyer beware indeed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delcredere Posted February 6, 2014 Share #12 Posted February 6, 2014 I have bought many Leica lenses on eBay over the years without ever having a problem. However, I recently bought a Noctilux over eBay for a bargain but not ridiculously low price which was not delivered. I did get my money back through the eBay/PayPal guarantee but I found the whole experience very anxious making and stressful. Following the eBay procedure (which says you should not complain about delivery too quickly as the seller might just be slow) sent me into a loop as I found that although I had bought on the UK site for some unexplained and hidden reason it was actually a sale through eBay.com. In the end after lengthy telephone calls I found myself talking to a high value item specialist in the USA. To be fair they did not quibble and quickly told me to stop worrying and that this was a clear refund case as no tracking number had been issued by the putative seller. My instinct with the sale that is the subject of this thread is to stay clear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted February 6, 2014 Share #13 Posted February 6, 2014 I have bought many Leica lenses on eBay over the years without ever having a problem. However, I recently bought a Noctilux over eBay for a bargain but not ridiculously low price which was not delivered. I did get my money back through the eBay/PayPal guarantee but I found the whole experience very anxious making and stressful. Following the eBay procedure (which says you should not complain about delivery too quickly as the seller might just be slow) sent me into a loop as I found that although I had bought on the UK site for some unexplained and hidden reason it was actually a sale through eBay.com. In the end after lengthy telephone calls I found myself talking to a high value item specialist in the USA. To be fair they did not quibble and quickly told me to stop worrying and that this was a clear refund case as no tracking number had been issued by the putative seller. My instinct with the sale that is the subject of this thread is to stay clear. agree, ebay have been good to me once when I was conned over Leica equipment but it was a very anxious time. In that case the pictures looked genuine, the guy told be the serial number. He even produced a genuine tracking number to delay things (probably a teddy bear he sent to his granma). As Leica is quite specialist equipment you can pretty soon determine in a few emails if its genuine. Therefore I always ask quetsions, even if I am not interested in the answers, just in how the buyer answers. Selling for someone else is usually always a fraud Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted February 6, 2014 Share #14 Posted February 6, 2014 Selling for someone else is usually always a fraud No, not always. I have sold stuff for friends before who don't know/want to know how to use ebay, and it helps to have a solid feedback record. But it is something to be wary of, particularly if you see the common get out clause "I don't know anything about this item as I'm selling for a friend and it's sold as seen". This usually means it's broken. If I do sell on behalf of someone else, and received a question about the item, I'd supply my friends phone number or email address to deal with any queries. The issue with this particular listing is that I very much doubt there's any camera or friend at all. Just someone waiting for a nice lump sum to hit their bank account! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted February 6, 2014 Share #15 Posted February 6, 2014 2 mins left and it's jumped to £3600........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted February 6, 2014 Share #16 Posted February 6, 2014 It ended at £3900. I shall watch for feedback with much interest! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth3kpl Posted February 6, 2014 Share #17 Posted February 6, 2014 I think this is a genuine sale, and someone just got a bargain. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalHeMan Posted February 6, 2014 Share #18 Posted February 6, 2014 Unfortunately the buyer is going to be disappointed. A bit of research would have shown him that the same camera (or at least the same text and photos) was already offered for sale back in November in the US.... Leica M Type 240 en Renton, Washington | Tienda del Web Espa Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted February 6, 2014 Share #19 Posted February 6, 2014 Unfortunately the buyer is going to be disappointed. A bit of research would have shown him that the same camera (or at least the same text and photos) was already offered for sale back in November in the US.... Leica M Type 240 en Renton, Washington | Tienda del Web Espa Oops!!! Next will come the request to pay direct via wire transfer... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcg Posted February 6, 2014 Author Share #20 Posted February 6, 2014 Well spotted. I really do hope that the buyer wises up before parting with money. I have sent a fraud report to eBay - but I don't know if they will take any notice. Maybe others can do so as well. http://ocs.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ReportItemMember&items=111271559717&active=1&contextid=6e1b65d2-28d6-400a-9173-afad9d9f4e0a&ocsFlow=true&seller=c.f.c_loyal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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