Jessestr Posted January 18, 2014 Share #1 Posted January 18, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi there Another question .. I love my M4 but in low light it's so hard to find focus. The patch doesn't really have as much contrast as my M8. I know you can resilver the patch but I want to know how expensive it is and if it's really worth it? I can perfectly shoot in dark areas with the M8 where I can with the M4... just takes waaay longer. And where can I do it? Or are there any other options available? Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 Hi Jessestr, Take a look here Resilver rangefinder patch. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pico Posted January 18, 2014 Share #2 Posted January 18, 2014 And where can I do it? Or are there any other options available? Before you spend a lot of money on a new patch mirror, consider trying this inexpensive alternative: Get your SHADE for the Leica M! Some find it works, depending upon circumstances. (The circumstances might not be too dark, but too contrasty.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessestr Posted January 18, 2014 Author Share #3 Posted January 18, 2014 Before you spend a lot of money on a new patch mirror, consider trying this inexpensive alternative:Get your SHADE for the Leica M! Some find it works, depending upon circumstances. (The circumstances might not be too dark, but too contrasty.) Thanks but it's not too well lit... it's too dark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k_g_wolf ✝ Posted January 18, 2014 Share #4 Posted January 18, 2014 You won´t find someone easily who can do this for a sensible amount of $$. Well, I reckon it´s near to impossible, unless there is a sufficient budget for it. Best GEORG Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted January 18, 2014 Share #5 Posted January 18, 2014 Contact some of the specialists listed on this forum. First though, use a baby wipe or wet lens tissue, and give the viewfinder eyepiece and the 'windows' on the front including the small one for the rangefinder a thorough clean. You may find it makes enough of a difference. The rangefinder may not even need resilvering, maybe just an internal clean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalArts 99 Posted January 18, 2014 Share #6 Posted January 18, 2014 That 'shade' device isn't needed for the M4. It's a 'filter' device for use with the M6 to help with the flaring of the focus patch. Many people choose to have the M6 permanently 'fixed' with a MP finder upgrade. But it's not an issue with the M4. As James suggested, you might want to have a service done to the M4 which would include cleaning the rangefinder, etc.. It's probably a good idea anyway if the M4 is 'new' to you and if you don't have a written history as to when it was last serviced (if ever.) The patch on my M4 has a few specks that I assumed was dirt. But they aren't dirt specks (it's something that can't be removed which I discovered after a full service; and it may be some de-silvering going on.) But it's fine otherwise and I'm not going to have it rebuilt (expensive.) The patches on M4/M3/M2 bodies are different than the M6 and later bodies. They have a different colour to them and the contrast may not feel as dramatic. But they're just as effective. I think you'll get used to it over time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerzy Posted January 18, 2014 Share #7 Posted January 18, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Canadabalsam which is used to cement optical elements may become yellowish with the time, optical elements may as well separate. Shall the halfmirror coating on one of the cemented prisms get worse you may want to resilver and recement itt. I found that CRR Luton is doing it, if I am correct for 65GBP. I do not have any experience with CRR. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 19, 2014 Share #8 Posted January 19, 2014 That 'shade' device isn't needed for the M4. It's a 'filter' device for use with the M6 to help with the flaring of the focus patch. Many people choose to have the M6 permanently 'fixed' with a MP finder upgrade. But it's not an issue with the M4. As James suggested, you might want to have a service done to the M4 which would include cleaning the rangefinder, etc.. It's probably a good idea anyway if the M4 is 'new' to you and if you don't have a written history as to when it was last serviced (if ever.) The patch on my M4 has a few specks that I assumed was dirt. But they aren't dirt specks (it's something that can't be removed which I discovered after a full service; and it may be some de-silvering going on.) But it's fine otherwise and I'm not going to have it rebuilt (expensive.) The patches on M4/M3/M2 bodies are different than the M6 and later bodies. They have a different colour to them and the contrast may not feel as dramatic. But they're just as effective. I think you'll get used to it over time. M6 TTL that is - the M6 does not have the flare problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalArts 99 Posted January 19, 2014 Share #9 Posted January 19, 2014 M6 TTL that is - the M6 does not have the flare problem. Hmmm, maybe not the very first run of (Wetzlar stamped) M6 cameras (?), but my M6 non-TTL sure did (Solms.) I had the upgrade finder condenser installed by DAG. These references say it started with the M4-P (when the condenser lens was no longer being installed) Leica FAQ — RF patch flare My first M6 also flared (also Solms.) But even references to the earlier (Wetzlar) M6 cameras talk about the flare. So are camera techs misleading owners of the M6 'classic' and installing upgrades that aren't necessary? I hope not. Anyway all I can say is that I had flare with both M6 classic bodies and whatever DAG did, they no longer flared afterwards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madNbad Posted January 19, 2014 Share #10 Posted January 19, 2014 Didn't start with the M4-2 when the changes were made to the rangefinder? Since the M6 is essentially the same camera with a meter, the problem with flaring should extend back that far. The M4's are approaching fifty years old so I not surprised there is degradation to the rangefinder patch. Solms will rebuild it with an MP finder but DAG or one of the other techs should be able to correct the problem for a lot less. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessestr Posted January 20, 2014 Author Share #11 Posted January 20, 2014 What about the MP upgrade? How much does it cost? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yossarian123 Posted January 20, 2014 Share #12 Posted January 20, 2014 What about the MP upgrade? How much does it cost? I've heard its about $300-400. Can they do an upgrade on an M4 though? What might be more cost effective is to have a tech find an old parts M4 and perform a swap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jip Posted January 20, 2014 Share #13 Posted January 20, 2014 MP upgrade is only done to M6 bodies as far as I know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madNbad Posted January 20, 2014 Share #14 Posted January 20, 2014 Best advice is to send a note to Leica through the Customer Service link and you'll have an answer within a week. Then start contacting any or all of the techs mentioned throughout the forum and somewhere in there you will find both the sevice you want at the price you are willing to pay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
payasam Posted January 20, 2014 Share #15 Posted January 20, 2014 I got an M3 which was unusable because of a bad R/F patch. Don Goldberg (DAG) said it only needed cleaning -- and that turned out to be correct. Then I got an M6 which was unusable because of finder flare. Don fixed that too. The M4 finder will not need an "upgrade" -- which should be called restoration -- as it was made before Leitz/Leica effected the downgrade. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessestr Posted January 20, 2014 Author Share #16 Posted January 20, 2014 I got an M3 which was unusable because of a bad R/F patch. Don Goldberg (DAG) said it only needed cleaning -- and that turned out to be correct. Then I got an M6 which was unusable because of finder flare. Don fixed that too. The M4 finder will not need an "upgrade" -- which should be called restoration -- as it was made before Leitz/Leica effected the downgrade. So it could be that I can still use my M4 with just cleaning? It's really yellowish and not bright. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
payasam Posted January 21, 2014 Share #17 Posted January 21, 2014 Yes, maybe cleaning is all it needs. You will get a definitive answer on this from a capable repair person. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted January 23, 2014 Share #18 Posted January 23, 2014 Hello Everybody, I think Canada Balsam use ended with/at the introduction of the M4. As such Canada Balsam is not likely to have been used & is not likely to be the problem with an M4. Yellowing, darkening & loss of contrast are very often correctable with a simple range/viewfinder cleaning with many M's. Whatever their pedigree. Also: M's 1, 2, 3, 4 & don't forget 5, don't suffer from a number of the range/viewfinder problems that sometimes occur with their later siblings. M's 2, 4 & 5 had essentially the same rangefinder. M's 1, 2, 4 & 5 had essentially the same viewfinder with different viewfinder masks. M3's had a different range/viewfinder system. Less likely to flare than any other M. There were at least 2 different versions of the M3 range/viewfinder system. Best Regards, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessestr Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share #19 Posted January 23, 2014 DAG didn't send me any email back. Returning the M4 and getting an M6 now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted January 23, 2014 Share #20 Posted January 23, 2014 Hello Jessestr, By the way: Welcome to the Forum. Don Goldberg, & some othe Leitz/Leica repair people, can sometimes be slow in returning e-mails. You might try telephoning him. Best Regards, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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