Guest redge Posted January 16, 2014 Share #1 Posted January 16, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) This photo might be helpful to people who are thinking of using their M 240 with a Leitz bellows. From left to right: Camera Leitz OUFRO (part #16469). This is the silver ring with a red dot between the camera and the bellows. It is a 1cm extension ring. Leitz Bellows II. It's quite small/portable: 5 1/4" long x 3" wide by 4 3/4" tall. Leitz part #16558. This is an adapter that screws into the front of the bellows. This adapter does not work with all Leica lenses. 135mm f4 Tele-Elmar, Version I with detachable head. The head of the lens is unscrewed from its body and then screwed into the adapter #16558. In this case, I have mounted the bellows on a Manfrotto 410 Junior Geared Head. Note 1: It is essential to have a spacer, in this case an OUFRO, between the camera and the bellows. See this thread: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-type-240/291001-warning-m-typ-240-bellows-ii.html Note 2: I have not figured out a way to attach the camera, with multifunction hand grip, to the bellows. The base of the grip is thicker than the standard bottom plate. When I try to line up the camera's mount with the bellows, the grip strikes the rail of the bellows before I can get the camera and bellows aligned. I had hoped to use this set-up tethered to a computer, which requires the hand grip. I have a feeling that I'm going to need a spacer of at least 4 cm, in addition to the 1cm OUFRO, to get around the problem. Suggestions appreciated. I may add some additional photos and comments as I experiment with this over the next few days. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/220326-photo-showing-close-upmacro-components/?do=findComment&comment=2511106'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 Hi Guest redge, Take a look here Photo Showing Close-up/Macro Components. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pop Posted January 16, 2014 Share #2 Posted January 16, 2014 I'm going to need a spacer of at least 4 cm, in addition to the 1cm OUFRO, to get around the problem. Suggestions appreciated. The BEOON comes with a set of extension tubes with what appears to be M39 threads and an adapter to mount an M lens. This and any LTM-to-M adapter should do the trick. You can see some of those tubes in this thread of mine: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/digital-forum/275013-jerry-built-spectrum-analysis.html But then, have you tried turning the camera on the bellows by 90°? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest redge Posted January 16, 2014 Share #3 Posted January 16, 2014 The BEOON comes with a set of extension tubes with what appears to be M39 threads and an adapter to mount an M lens. This and any LTM-to-M adapter should do the trick. You can see some of those tubes in this thread of mine: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/digital-forum/275013-jerry-built-spectrum-analysis.html But then, have you tried turning the camera on the bellows by 90°? Thanks, that's very helpful. Tried rotating the bellows mount. No luck. P.S. For those who don't know what turning the camera on the bellows is about ... On the other side of the bellows, as pictured above, there is a lever. If one presses it in, the bellows mount will turn up to 90 degrees. If the camera clears the back of the rail, which it would with a Visoflex attached or with about 5cm of extension tubes (which is what I think I'll need to use this setup with a multifunction hand grip), this means that the camera can be rotated into portrait orientation. No need to change the orientation of the tripod head to go from landscape to portrait. Quite clever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill W Posted January 17, 2014 Share #4 Posted January 17, 2014 All in all it is an impressive setup. I would love to see some of your work with the bellows. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest redge Posted January 17, 2014 Share #5 Posted January 17, 2014 All in all it is an impressive setup. I would love to see some of your work with the bellows. I made a few photos today. The magnification is impressive and I was happy with the quality of the 135mm Tele-Elmar images. I have a target which will tell me the exact magnification with this set-up [if I can find the target, or if I use a ruler ] I will probably post a few images in this thread sometime in the next week. I definitely want to get the camera behind the bellows rail. This means at least 5cm of extension tube. The bellows II is built like a tank. Buying second-hand, the only issue is whether the bellows itself is light tight. Cost: Bellows II in perfect condition: $65 Adapter 16558 in perfect condition: $21 The OUFRO, from the same vendor, was $149. This is expensive for what it is, but apparently below current EBay prices. For this set-up, looks like there are much cheaper alternatives that will get the camera, with multifunction hand grip, out of the way of the rail, and at the same time, if desired, increase magnification. It isn't clear to me what is driving the rather high prices of OUFROs. Courtesy the very generous wlaidlaw, I expect to receive an LTM adapter soon, which I gather may be helpful with solving this problem. I also want to thank franz for explaining exactly what I needed to put this together. PS: If someone has 4cm+ of extension that they want to sell that will work with this, please send me a personal message. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted January 17, 2014 Share #6 Posted January 17, 2014 It isn't clear to me what is driving the rather high prices of OUFROs. I think it is the fact that it enables almost any Leica lens to be used as a close focus macro lens with evf/lv on the M240 Just glad I got mine for less than 20$ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest redge Posted January 17, 2014 Share #7 Posted January 17, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) I think it is the fact that it enables almost any Leica lens to be used as a close focus macro lens with evf/lv on the M240 Just glad I got mine for less than 20$ You got a good deal but what you say isn't a "fact". An OUFRO extends a lens barrel by 1cm. The impact of this on magnification depends on the focal length of the lens. An OUFRO has a greater impact on the close focusing of a Leica 35mm lens than on a 135mm. On the other hand, if you want distance between the camera and the subject, which is usually desirable, the 135 will give it to you and the 35 won't. A single OUFRO does not turn Leica lenses into macro lenses. In saying that, I am leaving aside the whole issue of lens design. Having tested an OUFRO with 35mm, 50mm, 90mm and 135mm lenses, I am disappointed. Its limitations are why I bought the bellows II, which gives one much greater control over magnification. I do think that two OUFROS, which open up the possibility of stacking them, are more versatile than one. But at current prices, it is quite a bit less expensive, with the advantage of greater control, to buy a bellows II, a spacer and the appropriate adapter. I don't see the point of a single OUFRO unless one wants to shoot handheld closer than a lens's minimum focus distance, and in saying that I'd be very interested in hearing from people who think that there are other uses for one. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
helged Posted January 17, 2014 Share #8 Posted January 17, 2014 Nice setup! There are a few examples of what the OUFRO can do and not do, quasi-macro-wise, in this thread. With bellows-II, you can put on whatever lens you have for macro work. Leica 100 mm f/2.8 APO-Macro-Elmarit-R and Contax Carl Zeiss s Planar 100mm F4 being two outstanding examples. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted January 17, 2014 Share #9 Posted January 17, 2014 Please use the Buy & Sell section in this forum for your WTB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayewing Posted January 17, 2014 Share #10 Posted January 17, 2014 redge, your problem of a suitable spacer has a possible solution in the new Novoflex LEM/VIS adapter which enables the use of visoflex lenses on the M240. The visoflex has a flange to flange spacing of 41mm and the LEM/VIS provides this. If more than 41mm is needed the OUFRO would add an extra 10mm. The Novoflex is quite expensive as it is really just the same as an OUFRO only longer. Indeed I had a 41mm spacer made to order two years ago for slightly less than the new current price of the new Novoflex LEM/VIS. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmx_2 Posted January 17, 2014 Share #11 Posted January 17, 2014 Maybe stupid, but why not use a visoflex as a spacer? Just lock up the mirror:) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jip Posted January 17, 2014 Share #12 Posted January 17, 2014 I use a visoflex as a spacer, it works but I've blacked out the top part. So no light can leak in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted January 17, 2014 Share #13 Posted January 17, 2014 My solution too. I'd still like a simple tube, but making this doesn't appear to be such a simple thing to do! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted January 17, 2014 Share #14 Posted January 17, 2014 … I also want to thank franz for explaining exactly what I needed to put this together. ... You're very welcome, redge, and imho that's one of the strengths of this forum: the free giving of high-quality information. (And by the way it's "farnz") Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drew.saunders Posted January 17, 2014 Share #15 Posted January 17, 2014 Maybe stupid, but why not use a visoflex as a spacer? Just lock up the mirror:) I have a Visoflex III and Bellows II, and I use them together on my M6TTL, and tried that setup on my Fuji X-E1 as well (with the Fuji XF to M adaptor). It works, but it's clunky, so I bought a Kipon Visoflex to XF adaptor and that works much better. For the M240 with live view, a simple tube like the Novoflex or Kipon would be the best solution. It's unfortunate that that Kipon doesn't (yet?) make a Visoflex to M adaptor, as their adaptors cost under $100 from Ebay, much less than the Novoflex. Kipon's own website seems to show fewer products than if you search Ebay, but they do make a Leica R to M, so maybe they could be convinced to make a Visoflex to M? porduct-Camera adapters > Leica M body-KIPON adapter Here's my Fuji setup showing how the Kipon "tube" works. It seems pretty strong and stable: That's a 135/2.8 head hanging off the front, and I got that Velbon Macro slider years ago, and it still works great! Drew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted January 17, 2014 Share #16 Posted January 17, 2014 I think that the best spacer is the Novoflex LEM/VIS (I am waiting for mine) ; also , jinfinance (Chinese adapter maker) does sell a OUFRO copy.... not so cheap (80 U$ around); of course, if one likes "stacking", various solution are possible.... including oddities like M to R + R to M (plus an OUFRO in case length is still not sufficient for the M grip) ... it depends also on what one has already at home... as Jip said, if one has a Visoflex II or III, it's a right spacer : but when mounted mine, had the feel that its (unused) release lever is someway annoying to have around... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest redge Posted January 17, 2014 Share #17 Posted January 17, 2014 The Novoflex LEM/VIS adapter is about €149 or US$202 in Europe, inclusive of about 20% tax. U.S. retailers, including major on-line retailers like B&H, want $269 before tax. The U.S price is effectively set by Novoflex's U.S. distributor, HP Marketing. The Canadian distributor's pricing is even worse. Might make sense for a U.S. or Canadian buyer considering Novoflex parts to purchase ex-VAT from Europe. Just an observation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yourdeelight Posted June 1, 2014 Share #18 Posted June 1, 2014 You got a good deal but what you say isn't a "fact". An OUFRO extends a lens barrel by 1cm. The impact of this on magnification depends on the focal length of the lens. An OUFRO has a greater impact on the close focusing of a Leica 35mm lens than on a 135mm. On the other hand, if you want distance between the camera and the subject, which is usually desirable, the 135 will give it to you and the 35 won't. A single OUFRO does not turn Leica lenses into macro lenses. In saying that, I am leaving aside the whole issue of lens design. Having tested an OUFRO with 35mm, 50mm, 90mm and 135mm lenses, I am disappointed. Its limitations are why I bought the bellows II, which gives one much greater control over magnification. I do think that two OUFROS, which open up the possibility of stacking them, are more versatile than one. But at current prices, it is quite a bit less expensive, with the advantage of greater control, to buy a bellows II, a spacer and the appropriate adapter. I don't see the point of a single OUFRO unless one wants to shoot handheld closer than a lens's minimum focus distance, and in saying that I'd be very interested in hearing from people who think that there are other uses for one. Cheers Be useful if you could give the results of your experiments. How much closer can you focus with a 5o mm lens for example? Plus details of the bellows etc..? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sillbeers15 Posted June 2, 2014 Share #19 Posted June 2, 2014 This photo might be helpful to people who are thinking of using their M 240 with a Leitz bellows. From left to right: Camera Leitz OUFRO (part #16469). This is the silver ring with a red dot between the camera and the bellows. It is a 1cm extension ring. Leitz Bellows II. It's quite small/portable: 5 1/4" long x 3" wide by 4 3/4" tall. Leitz part #16558. This is an adapter that screws into the front of the bellows. This adapter does not work with all Leica lenses. 135mm f4 Tele-Elmar, Version I with detachable head. The head of the lens is unscrewed from its body and then screwed into the adapter #16558. In this case, I have mounted the bellows on a Manfrotto 410 Junior Geared Head. Note 1: It is essential to have a spacer, in this case an OUFRO, between the camera and the bellows. See this thread: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-type-240/291001-warning-m-typ-240-bellows-ii.html Note 2: I have not figured out a way to attach the camera, with multifunction hand grip, to the bellows. The base of the grip is thicker than the standard bottom plate. When I try to line up the camera's mount with the bellows, the grip strikes the rail of the bellows before I can get the camera and bellows aligned. I had hoped to use this set-up tethered to a computer, which requires the hand grip. I have a feeling that I'm going to need a spacer of at least 4 cm, in addition to the 1cm OUFRO, to get around the problem. Suggestions appreciated. I may add some additional photos and comments as I experiment with this over the next few days. I have all the parts for the same setup, except I choose to use the visoflex 90deg viewer instead of the OUFRO as the spacer. I keep the OURRO free in my camera bag for 'if needed' close ups. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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