More quality Control Issues

[jaapv]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Since cosmic rays approach from all directions, particularly Neutrinos that travel through the earth, vertical with respect to what, Jaap?

 

Pete.

 

I know Pete. It i just my particular good luck charm I doubt that a Neutrino would do much damage. Neutrons, Protons, etc. are more likely.

[k-hawinkler]

I know Pete. It i just my particular good luck charm I doubt that a Neutrino would do much damage. Neutrons, Protons, etc. are more likely.

 

In particular if you stick a device in a neutron beam.

They have done this here with computer chips as well.

[pop]

Have you all read the latest thread, another new Noctilux has been delivered with its aperture ring fitted on backwards!! How the hell can this happen, and then how can someone personally sign a card saying the lens has been inspected by them before leaving the factory?

It's beyond belief.

That sounds really weird. I have no information on that matter, but I can imagine that this kind of error is so gross that the author of the check list simply failed to think of it. Also, it must not have occurred to the designer of the lens; otherwise, I think they'd have coded the ring so that it was not possible to mount it upside down.

Murphy knew what he was talking about.

[Naper]

Things break, problems do happen it's a fact. Nothing is perfect. That's why there is warranties. The most important thing is how the manufacture deals with the problem.

[wlaidlaw]

Things break, problems do happen it's a fact. Nothing is perfect. That's why there is warranties. The most important thing is how the manufacture deals with the problem.

 

I am afraid I totally disagree. With really expensive products such as Leica, it is even more important to get them right in the first case. Doing otherwise seriously tees off and inconveniences the customer (like me with my Noctilux). Sloppy QC can never be excused by “oh our warranty repair service is excellent”. Such a philosophy nearly killed Jaguar in the 1990’s and I am amazed people are still prepared to put up with Range Rovers, which again and again, come bottom of any reliability survey.

 

The Koreans have found that people will flock to buy a very ordinary product that is very reliable to begin with and has a good warranty, which the makers can afford, as they don’t have many claims. We used to buy British and German domestic appliances. We now buy Korean, because they rarely go wrong and when they do, parts are cheap, unlike the rip off from German makers. The ice maker in our Samsung American type fridge freezer went wrong due to the freezer being over-filled and then rough handling when the whole thing froze together. The entire new ice maker unit cost £29, including the electronic control box. For a German fridge freezer, I would probably have been looking at £200+.

 

Our previous Bosch washing machine’s front rotary control switch died after just 4 years. Bosch wanted £185 for the switch and it was another £90 to have the man out to fit it. We took the machine to the scrap yard and bought a direct drive drum LG, which works far better and makes 1/3rd of the noise.

 

Wilson

[pico]

Cosmic rays are indeedthe only reason we are here at all. Evolution is driven by mutations through cosmic ray damage to DNA.

But shall we get back to Leica and QC?

 

Viruses are also an important consideration in mutations in life beings, as well as viruses themselves.

 

Back to Leica and QC - one factor might be the economic: when we see a pervasive decline in quality we should look to management, and in particular the bean-counters' influence upon QC. There is a theory that short-term peaks in quality problems are due to the belief that the economic outcome is advantageous none-the-less. It is rather like the opposing theory that taking the 'Quality' out of TQM (becoming Total Management taking the workers out of the loop) has a negative effect upon the workers, thus the product. As Wilson put it 'ethos'.

 

But we have no insight into Leica regarding either. We have no information, no data, but only individual accounts, some from highly credible sources which are admittedly shocking.

[BerndReini]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

You know how you are not supposed to buy cars of certain years from certain manufacturers?

 

Those years better come to an end really quickly from Leica, especially if they are trying to release a new camera system to compete with every other company. That T system has got to be flawless with fast and accurate autofocus because I doubt it will compete in price with what manufacturers like Olympus or Sony are offering.

 

I love Leica cameras and lenses and it makes me sick when I hear about these QC issues. Two out of six lenses with a problem when you just spent, what $30,000? This is absolutely unacceptable, and nobody should make excuses for this.

[intermediatic]

My ever ready case came apart in November, I still don't have it back.

 

Yes, what matters is how companies address service issues.

[semi-ambivalent]

Have you all read the latest thread, another new Noctilux has been delivered with its aperture ring fitted on backwards!! How the hell can this happen, and then how can someone personally sign a card saying the lens has been inspected by them before leaving the factory?

 

It's beyond belief.

 

I recall reading in the mid-70s of a cyclist buying a high end Italian bike that made a pinging sound when ridden. What the mechanic eventually found was a piece of brazing rod inside the frame's top tube. He managed to get a good squirt of epoxy in there through a breather hole and that solved the problem. The point is that this could not possibly have been accidental. That brazing rod was put in there by a worker who was either very immature or very upset about something. Stick it to The Man. Leica the company is under pressure from many sources right now. One hopes they are also addressing pressures upon Leica the Workers, since it is their skills we see first.

 

s-a

[wlaidlaw]

I recall reading in the mid-70s of a cyclist buying a high end Italian bike that made a pinging sound when ridden. What the mechanic eventually found was a piece of brazing rod inside the frame's top tube. He managed to get a good squirt of epoxy in there through a breather hole and that solved the problem. The point is that this could not possibly have been accidental. That brazing rod was put in there by a worker who was either very immature or very upset about something. Stick it to The Man. Leica the company is under pressure from many sources right now. One hopes they are also addressing pressures upon Leica the Workers, since it is their skills we see first.

 

s-a

 

During university easter vacation in 1966, I worked at Ford’s in Dagenham, eventually on the Cortina assembly line. The car had not been originally designed to have seat belts and the door pillar mounting was very much of an afterthought. One person had to hold the plate in place with a pair of tongs while another person put the spot welds in place. The plates often got dropped down inside the pillar. There was no time to fish them out again. The management gave us an underseal gun to squirt down the pillar, in the hope that it would glue the loose plate in place. I often wondered if there were hundreds of Cortina owners moaning about the horrible rattle from the door pillar, only to be told by the dealer “oh they all do that sir”.

 

Wilson

[skuromis]

Some manufacturers ship their cameras by sea and land for exactly this reason.

 

Hello Jaap, I don't want to say anything about the cosmic rays, but the fact that airfreights are probably 10 times more expensive than land freights or Sea freights is for me the much more significant reason, why most companies ship their goods by truck or vessel.

An airfreight remains a premium shipment, which should be justified by urgency...

[earleygallery]

During university easter vacation in 1966, I worked at Ford’s in Dagenham, eventually on the Cortina assembly line. The car had not been originally designed to have seat belts and the door pillar mounting was very much of an afterthought. One person had to hold the plate in place with a pair of tongs while another person put the spot welds in place. The plates often got dropped down inside the pillar. There was no time to fish them out again. The management gave us an underseal gun to squirt down the pillar, in the hope that it would glue the loose plate in place. I often wondered if there were hundreds of Cortina owners moaning about the horrible rattle from the door pillar, only to be told by the dealer “oh they all do that sir”.

 

Wilson

 

Wilson, you've just reminded me of my fathers old Ford Zephyr mklV. We used to call it the 'bell car' because every now and then there would be a distinct 'ding' like those counter bells you ring for service.

 

No one could ever trace where it came from either!

[thighslapper]

I hesitate to say it ....... but I am afraid we are all partly responsible for this situation ........

 

..... Remember all the bleating and moaning about the delays in the appearance of products and the quantity available .....?

 

QC problems like this are just as likely to be a symptom of a production line under stress and excessive demand as incompetence .......

 

You reap what you sow ........

[pico]

QC problems like this are just as likely to be a symptom of a production line under stress and excessive demand as incompetence ....... :rolleyes

 

Blame the victim.

[jdlaing]

Wilson, you've just reminded me of my fathers old Ford Zephyr mklV. We used to call it the 'bell car' because every now and then there would be a distinct 'ding' like those counter bells you ring for service.

 

No one could ever trace where it came from either!

 

The drive shaft.

[jdsheepdog]

 

..........but I can imagine that this kind of error is so gross that the author of the check list simply failed to think of it...........

 

 

This is actually a very interesting and germane point, and not just about cameras. Skilled people have difficulty in anticipating unskilled circumstances. I see it repeatedly in the increasingly complex regulatory environment that surrounds shipbuilding and design. I also suspect that my industry is by no means alone in this.

 

Highly complex rules, written by knowledgeable and experienced people are suddenly, and disastrously in some cases, found to have completely ignored a circumstance that their authors, in their knowledge and experience, could never have encompassed occurring.

 

I would like a penny for every time that I have been told, while objecting to something I considered as profoundly bad practise, usually to reduce costs, to be told "There's nothing in the "Rules" to say we can't do it."

 

My response, not always successful, is to say that the people who wrote the "Rules" were simply incapable of thinking that anyone would propose anything so obviously and demonstrably dumb.

 

And when "Rules" are formatted for considered reasons, the bean counters usually bleat that the costs would be prohibitive. For example, from a hypothetical conversation on the 10th of September, 2001: "Are you seriously wanting us to put locks on flight deck doors? That would cost lots. As if someone is going to take over a plane and fly it into a building hahaha!"

[ells@watleo.uwaterloo.ca]

I am also a new Leica owner with a raft of Nikon stuff, but only the 240 and three Leica lenses. I had problems with focussing. I set up a focus testing bed, took a series of photos at various f-stops and distances using a tripod, and even photographed the rangefinder view on an iPod. I had similar problems with the Leica flash.

 

As I was on extended travel in Europe,I brought it to the Lecia dealer in Florence who had no financial investment in me. He arranged to have it sent back to the factory under warranty and it came back within two weeks, with a new body and all lenses recalibrated and low and behold the flash works. I am impressed. I am been similarly impressed with the North American office when I first noticed the flash issues. I wonder whether anyone got their Mercedes replaced at the first sign of problems?

[earleygallery]

I hesitate to say it ....... but I am afraid we are all partly responsible for this situation ........

 

..... Remember all the bleating and moaning about the delays in the appearance of products and the quantity available .....?

 

QC problems like this are just as likely to be a symptom of a production line under stress and excessive demand as incompetence .......

 

You reap what you sow ........

 

Nonsense.

[wlaidlaw]

I am also a new Leica owner with a raft of Nikon stuff, but only the 240 and three Leica lenses. I had problems with focussing. I set up a focus testing bed, took a series of photos at various f-stops and distances using a tripod, and even photographed the rangefinder view on an iPod. I had similar problems with the Leica flash.

 

As I was on extended travel in Europe,I brought it to the Lecia dealer in Florence who had no financial investment in me. He arranged to have it sent back to the factory under warranty and it came back within two weeks, with a new body and all lenses recalibrated and low and behold the flash works. I am impressed. I am been similarly impressed with the North American office when I first noticed the flash issues. I wonder whether anyone got their Mercedes replaced at the first sign of problems?

 

I don’t think any of us are arguing that Leica does not run an excellent warranty repair service. What we are saying is that we all just wish we did not have to avail ourselves of it quite so frequently.

 

Wilson

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[earleygallery]

The drive shaft.

 

I don't think so, it was very clear and close, somewhere within the interior. I remember it seemed to come from the rear rather than the front.