Question for experienced users

[lethbrp]

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Hi everyone,

 

I've been reading these threads for a number of weeks. I'm now at the point where I'm in a position to either replace all my Nikon DSLR kit, or completely switch to the M system.

 

I've spent a couple of hours at the Mayfair branch playing with the camera. One thing that really concerns me is the number of focus misses I get with the camera. I fully understand that the Leica glass is superior to Nikon, but unless I can get a better hit rate, it seems this would be a worthless investment. I'm really trying hard to get to grips with this, as I really am sold on a lighter/smaller system.

 

Can anyone offer any advice from those of you who have over come from the DSLR side. I'm sure it must get better.

 

I would certainly appreciate the benefit of your experience.

[jaapv]

Everything is foreseen on this forum .

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-type-240/308500-leica-m8-m8-2-m9-m9p.html#post2554274

[lethbrp]

Thanks Jaap, very informative and helpful regarding the diopter, as I think this is some of the problem.

 

I would certainly appreciate peoples own experience on how they coped with the transition

[tobey bilek]

Leicas are wonderful for travel, not fast action situations, and for better light. Nikons work for close up, tele work, better range of lenses,

 

The colors seem a bit funky from the factory I believe because they are trying to achieve a special look the lenses used to give with film. On digital it makes no difference, or very little. Leica lenses may have 10% superior quality at 3X the cost.

I speak of the new G lenses. Leica lenses will outlive Nikon because they are far less complicated and made from superior materials.

 

Rent one, shoot side by side, and then decide. I assure you the colors will be the same if you profile the cameras and WB them. The problem is all is not accomplished easily in a week.

 

No matter what they say, 1.4 does not make up for higher ISO because there is no depth of field at 1.4. 1.4 is good for some shots, but I generally do not appreciate it.

 

VR is cool for 1/30 hand held, but it does not stop moving subjects.

 

You could always buy into the S system , but that is a ton of money. Try a D800 before you sell off Nikons. Impressive camera with the newest lenses. I just did a concert at iso 3200, Nik Define noise reduction rather than ACR, and the pics are wonderful. I could not come close with the M9.

[earleygallery]

Consider the type of photography you like and if AF is really necessary.

 

A big difference between an SLR and rangefinder is that looking through the SLR you view the scene on a ground glass focus screen which shows the subject you have in focus, and nearer/further objects out of focus depending on depth of field of the lens fitted at widest aperture (usually).

 

With the rangefinder everything will appear 'in focus' and of course you actually focus with the rangefinder patch on whatever you want to be in focus (reframing as necessary).

 

There's no magic answer, it's a case of getting used to a new system and lots of practice, following the hints in the other thread. You can also 'zone focus' by setting the lens at a distance and f stop to give you enough leeway to shoot subjects within a certain range, useful for fast street photography for example.

[Ozoyo]

I have to say focusing is also my main area of concern. I'll know soon enough as I'll get my M in a couple of weeks now.

 

One of the interests of a digital camera, is the ability to shoot wide open in broad daylight, I enjoy that anyway, it is great for portraits. Even on my D800 with a deadly efficient AF, the slighest move can make you miss when shooting 1.4.

 

I am just wondering how it can work with the M, especially if what needs to be in focus is on the side of the frame and you need to focus in the center, then move back to frame properly.

 

It is even more of a question if that has to be done on a moving object.

[Photoskeptic]

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I use both Nikon and Leica systems. I would suggest you do the same .

 

That was the smart-ass answer. Now to the why. Rangefinder focusing is not for everyone. For some a concession must be made with a diopter, others use a magnifier and some of us just have great eyesight. But I would say rangefinder focusing is the most accurate way to focus for certain focal lengths and if at first you are missing focus on shots, precision can be acquired through practice.

[lethbrp]

Leicas are wonderful for travel, not fast action situations, and for better light. Nikons work for close up, tele work, better range of lenses,

 

The colors seem a bit funky from the factory I believe because they are trying to achieve a special look the lenses used to give with film. On digital it makes no difference, or very little. Leica lenses may have 10% superior quality at 3X the cost.

I speak of the new G lenses. Leica lenses will outlive Nikon because they are far less complicated and made from superior materials.

 

Rent one, shoot side by side, and then decide. I assure you the colors will be the same if you profile the cameras and WB them. The problem is all is not accomplished easily in a week.

 

No matter what they say, 1.4 does not make up for higher ISO because there is no depth of field at 1.4. 1.4 is good for some shots, but I generally do not appreciate it.

 

VR is cool for 1/30 hand held, but it does not stop moving subjects.

 

You could always buy into the S system , but that is a ton of money. Try a D800 before you sell off Nikons. Impressive camera with the newest lenses. I just did a concert at iso 3200, Nik Define noise reduction rather than ACR, and the pics are wonderful. I could not come close with the M9.

 

Thank you. I used to have the D3s and D800 and they are wonderful tools. Just very heavy when you attach a 2.8 zoom on the front. and becomes burdensom in hot climates whilst travelling. This was the major attraction of the M system to me. But my concern was the lack of hit rate from focus. I presumed this gets better with more practice, but I'd be a little disappointed if I came back from a trip with a fair number of images OOF. I'm not whether this is something M users accept as part of the package.

[lethbrp]

I use both Nikon and Leica systems. I would suggest you do the same .

 

That was the smart-ass answer. Now to the why. Rangefinder focusing is not for everyone. For some a concession must be made with a diopter, others use a magnifier and some of us just have great eyesight. But I would say rangefinder focusing is the most accurate way to focus for certain focal lengths and if at first you are missing focus on shots, precision can be acquired through practice.

 

Thanks for sparing the time to respond. I'm sort of veering this way. The only piece of Nikon gear the burglers left (surprisingly), was my 200-400 F4. I think I might trade it in for a D800 and use the rest on an M system

[Bill W]

I use both Nikon and Leica and have for many years. If you want to go lighter on the Nikon side, try the D600 if you need to keep a DSLR. I have one and it is fantastic as are my M and MM......Please do not tell my wife how much stuff I have. To her it all looks the same.

[lethbrp]

I use both Nikon and Leica and have for many years. If you want to go lighter on the Nikon side, try the D600 if you need to keep a DSLR. I have one and it is fantastic as are my M and MM......Please do not tell my wife how much stuff I have. To her it all looks the same.

 

I think you and I are so alike. If it wasn't for the insurance claim, she would have remained oblivious to the amount of kit I had, I think she was as shocked as the insurance company at the amount of loss (£30k)

[flyalf]

Good answers. I do not claim to be experienced, but I use the Ms for people photography wide open a lot. For quite a few of these I find a horizontal line or a point in the same plane as the person, and focus on this as a help. For street I often do this (pre-focus) and then wait for person to walk into focus plane.

 

Best of luck!

[Guest redge]

I've spent a couple of hours at the Mayfair branch playing with the camera. One thing that really concerns me is the number of focus misses I get with the camera.

 

Hi,

 

I'm having trouble understanding how someone could spend two hours at the Mayfair store, shooting with the camera, and conclude that too many of the shots showed incorrect focus.

 

Are you saying that you had a problem with lining up the double image in the viewfinder or that the apparent depth of field in the resulting image was not what you expected? Did you look at the images on a computer or just on the camera screen?

 

Did you discuss the problem with the staff at the Mayfair store? I'm sure that they would have identified the problem and explained what needed to be done to correct it.

 

In one of your posts, you seem to suggest that the problem, at least in part, is that your eyesight needs correction. If that's the issue, the solution is to make the correction Are you nearsighted, farsighted or ..?

 

Cheers

[Jakobben]

I feel the M has changed my photography in some pretty interesting ways (though I've only had it for 3 weeks). Because I cannot rely on the computer inside the camera, I have become much better at previsualization, and thinking about my shot before I lift the camera. After knowing I want to take a shot, I visually measure the distance to my focus point, and determine if I need a higher f-stop to be able to capture any movement. Then, I lift the camera, and while doing that, turn the focus to the approximate distance and set the aperture to give me sufficient DOF at that distance to be sure I can get good focus. By the time the camera is at my eye, it is almost in focus. If I have the time, I can adjust the aperture and spend some more time to get the look I'm after etc.

 

My setup is to use my Fuji X-E1 for most travel, and when moving quickly through areas, just because it has a zoom = versatility, and the camera is very light. The M is for everything else.

 

Regarding color - I apply a few color adjustments upon import to lightroom, and have had no problems with color since then.

[earleygallery]

but I'd be a little disappointed if I came back from a trip with a fair number of images OOF. I'm not whether this is something M users accept as part of the package.

 

They might be OOF but they're the sharpest OOF images you can find!

[wda]

leth, were you on a familiarisation course at Mayfair? If not, book one and use the time to learn the basic techniques of getting results with a rangefinder camera.

 

Regarding eyesight, I use my normal spectacles with my M cameras without difficulty. Only with wide-angle framing do some framing difficulties arise. But with any lens I can see the rangefinder patch clearly to see two images coincide.

 

Like most changes, there is an unavoidable learning curve. You rise at your own pace with practice leading to progressive improvements. Even today, after nearly fifty years of experience, I find that my work improves after a quick refresher of manual controls. The main difficulty you will face, coming from DSLR applications, is that you wrongly assume that the clear image you see in the optical viewfinder represent a potentially sharp picture. The lens has to be focused each time. After a while you will establish your own personal operating drill and see your success rate increase.

 

Practise. Practise. And more practice. I wish you well. Don't rush into a wrong and possibly premature negative conclusion.

[microview]

Hi,

 

I'm having trouble understanding how someone could spend two hours at the Mayfair store, shooting with the camera, and conclude that too many of the shots showed incorrect focus.

 

Maybe the coffee at Leica Mayfair is stronger than you think:D.

[Jeff S]

Be sure to recognize in the FAQ linked by Jaap that the focus patch is set at a virtual distance of 2m. Before anything else, you should visit an optician and have your eyes checked for this distance (of course including all relevant factors such as astigmatism) as well as other near/far distances. Then you'll know for sure if you need correction, aside from any other issues, which may include camera/lens calibration, technique, etc.

 

A magnifier will not fix eye problems, only making things bigger.

 

Diopters are not for everyone, as eye conditions and preferences vary. My glasses correct for distance as well as astigmatism (and provide sun shade for sensitive eyes), and I vastly prefer keeping them on rather than removing them just to see the VF with a diopter (which would need to be this one for astigmatism.) Fortunately my glasses allow me to see both the focus patch as well as near/far distances without problem. Everyone is different.

 

Finally, rangefinders are not everyone's cup of tea. Perhaps you can get a camera for loan or rent before you buy to see how you get along.

 

Jeff

[dugby]

My setup is to use my Fuji X-E1 for most travel, and when moving quickly through areas, just because it has a zoom = versatility, and the camera is very light. The M is for everything else.

 

My son just bought the X-E2 with zoom, and I must say it's looking like a desirable replacement to my Digilux-2 that I use for travel.

 

We had fun comparing the use-ability of the X-E2 to my M240 with both my 35 and 50 FLE Luxs.

Got to say the "settings and user logic" in the Fuji is superb, and the digital Leica engineers could learn a lot from this Fuji.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Delcredere]

leth, were you on a familiarisation course at Mayfair? If not, book one and use the time to learn the basic techniques of getting results with a rangefinder camera.

 

Regarding eyesight, I use my normal spectacles with my M cameras without difficulty. Only with wide-angle framing do some framing difficulties arise. But with any lens I can see the rangefinder patch clearly to see two images coincide.

 

Like most changes, there is an unavoidable learning curve. You rise at your own pace with practice leading to progressive improvements. Even today, after nearly fifty years of experience, I find that my work improves after a quick refresher of manual controls. The main difficulty you will face, coming from DSLR applications, is that you wrongly assume that the clear image you see in the optical viewfinder represent a potentially sharp picture. The lens has to be focused each time. After a while you will establish your own personal operating drill and see your success rate increase.

 

Practise. Practise. And more practice. I wish you well. Don't rush into a wrong and possibly premature negative conclusion.

 

+1