Strange white spots on M9 sensor?

[leicaphilia]

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Leica should sue the supplier and make him pay for the repairs.

 

Yes . But...they are Kodak sensors, correct? And Kodak has subsequently declared bankruptcy, correct? If so, then Leica may be foreclosed from suing Kodak.

 

Whatever Leica does, they are going to have to bite the bullet shortterm if they want ro be viable longterm.

[jaapv]

No - they are Truesense sensors and Truesense is alive and kicking. They bought the business from Kodak.

[colonel]

Unfortunately Leica could not foresee the future and the occasional problems on this model of Trusense sensor. i hope the proposed solutions for people who do have problems are acceptable to them.

 

I have not heard of this particular issue on any other digital camera and am therefore reasonably confident the M240 will not have this issue. Based on experience with older digital devices I could quite see a M240 camera's electronics and sensor lasting 30-40 years, and more.

 

My TRS-80 model 100 is still working fine, except the e key, which of course is a mechanical problem.

1983 to 2014 = 31 years and counting ....

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Edited November 26, 2014 by colonel

[M-Mount]

No - they are Truesense sensors and Truesense is alive and kicking. They bought the business from Kodak.

 

No - they are On Semiconductor sensors and On Semi is alive and kicking. They bought the business from Truesense. ;-)

[M9reno]

So you can reduce the odds considerably for users who aren't living in countries with high humidity and if the others only use a tiny drop of cleaning fluid and don't slosh it around the edges.

 

Steve

 

For those of us who still have healthy sensors "reducing the odds" has to be the plan from now on. But it will generate worries, and significantly reduce the camera's usability going forward. And, as used prices will reflect this and/or our consciences will guide us, forget the idea of re-selling in order to 'trade up'.

[edwardkaraa]

No - they are On Semiconductor sensors and On Semi is alive and kicking. They bought the business from Truesense. ;-)

 

That is very interesting. I just googled it and it seems they acquired Truesense back in May.

[demadit]

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As promised, we´d like to address a number of questions you have regarding the issue with our CCD sensor and be as clear as possible.

 

First let us state that we regret any inconveniences you may face and do investigate measures to durably fix the problem while still offering the best possible optical performance.

 

By a repair, we replace the CCD sensor with a sensor of the same type we use for serial production. We can thus not exclude totally a new case of corrosion after repair. Therefore, the goodwill arrangement also applies for a replaced sensor, which shows signs of corrosion. In these cases we will consider the sensor replacement date the same as the purchasing date.

 

We think that any potential damages of the sensor surface can occur due to cleaning the sensor and can lead to corrosion. We, therefore, advice to clean the sensor without touching it or in a dust-free environment such as in Leica Customer Care. We don’t want to convey the impression that you are not able to clean the sensor yourselves. If you are confident performing a sensor cleaning yourself, you may do so. But please be aware that the risk, when using wet cleaning solutions in the field, is higher.

 

At Leica, we use “Isopropanol” (isopropyl alcohol) and the following tools to clean the sensor, in the production as well as by the Customer Care:

Pentax Image Sensor Cleaning Kit, O-ICK1:

Sensor Cleaning Kit

Cleaning swabs made by ‘Visible Dust’:

Camera sensor cleaning — Arctic Butterfly sensor brush, loupe, swabs, liquids

 

With great care and attention, you may also use these for cleaning the sensor yourselves. Essential for not damaging the sensor is to painstakingly observe the manufacturers’ instructions and only work with new and unsoiled cleaning aids.

We kindly ask you for your understanding that sensors showing visible mechanical scratch marks occurring from improper cleaning attempts cannot be covered by the warranty and goodwill arrangement.

This is also the reason why we offer to perform cleaning at the Leica Customer Care, free of charge and as often as needs to be.

 

Should you be considering an upgrade to a Leica M or M-P (Type 240), Customer Care will make you an attractive offer as a part of our goodwill arrangement.

 

JJ Viau - Digital Marketing with Stefan Daniel - Director Product Management Photo

Leica Camera

[bob338]

" Should you be considering an upgrade to a Leica M or M-P (Type 240), Customer Care will make you an attractive offer as a part of our goodwill arrangement."

 

Has anyone followed up on this? I'm very interested, but not sure who to call.

 

Bob

[edwardkaraa]

" Should you be considering an upgrade to a Leica M or M-P (Type 240), Customer Care will make you an attractive offer as a part of our goodwill arrangement."

 

Has anyone followed up on this? I'm very interested, but not sure who to call.

 

Bob

 

I guess you have to send your camera to customer care, and if they tell you it's got sensor corrosion, you ask for an upgrade offer.

 

Too bad when I sent mine last year, there was no such policy. I specifically requested an upgrade but the request wasn't answered.

 

I think this is a sensible offer from Leica and by far the best option for the owners.

[Universalb50]

I currently have an M9 with defective sensor at Leica-Allendale. I have been offered a complimentary new sensor. I ask about this new policy, and the person I spoke with a few minutes ago at Leica was unaware of Mr Viau's proposal!

[gyoung]

That's OK. I have already said that I'm not going to buy one

 

My Nikon D700 is about 5 1/2 years old. I have never, ever cleaned the sensor, nor blown anything at it. It does have some sort of ultrasonic dust removal system, that works very well though.

 

Thailand or anywhere sub-tropical have never been on my list of places to visit, but it is ridiculous that a sensor should fail due to humidity. As you say, temperate places can be humid too.

 

This is the sort of problem that could push a company under, either Leica or Truesense. I wonder what the contractual arrangements were between the two parties in the eventuality that the sensors failed due to a manufacturing problem.

 

Worth noting that many Nikon dslrs are actually made in Thailand (as are Sony cameras) so hopefully can cope with such climatic conditions.

 

Gerry

[250swb]

On to 'demadit's post, it does confirm that with COMMON SENSE cleaning is possible after all, it excludes those without common sense, but offers the services of Leica as a substitute. I applaud Leica for grudgingly admitting some people do have common sense, but it would have saved considerably bandwidth if the implied consequences of the original statement had been thought through before posting it.

 

Steve

[Ario Arioldi]

"Therefore, the goodwill arrangement also applies for a replaced sensor, which shows signs of corrosion. In these cases we will consider the sensor replacement date the same as the purchasing date."

After this statement I am by far more relaxed.

[keithlaban.co.uk]

I'd be fascinated to hear what proportion of M9 sensors have been affected.

 

Knowledge facilitates decisions.

[daure]

Chers Messieurs Stefan Daniel et Jean Jacques Viau,

 

What's about the MM (M Monochrom) having the same problem ?

Merci.

[DigitalHeMan]

Should you be considering an upgrade to a Leica M or M-P (Type 240), Customer Care will make you an attractive offer as a part of our goodwill arrangement.

 

JJ Viau - Digital Marketing with Stefan Daniel - Director Product Management Photo

Leica Camera

 

Thank you, this makes me feel a lot more secure. My plan was to stick with my M-E as long as it kept going, but all the recent discussions made me think about upgrading to the M240 earlier whilst I could still get a good trade in value. Now I know I will have an upgrade path to the M or M-P if I experience sensor issues, I feel a lot happier.

[wlaidlaw]

Yes . But...they are Kodak sensors, correct? And Kodak has subsequently declared bankruptcy, correct? If so, then Leica may be foreclosed from suing Kodak.

 

Whatever Leica does, they are going to have to bite the bullet shortterm if they want ro be viable longterm.

 

They (Kodak) will also have purchased product liability insurance. However any liability insurance is a policy of indemnity and if the original insured is unable to pay due to insolvency etc, it is necessary to get a court to agree a "cut through" clause for a third party insured to access the original policy. This the courts may or may not do but you can guarantee that the insurers will fight this tooth and nail.

 

Now given that Truesense purchased the business from Kodak's receivers, we would need to know whether or not Truesense agreed to take on the expiring/outstanding liabilities of the Kodak sensor business. My guess is that they would not, if they had any sense and given that it was a buyer's market, have agreed to do so.

 

So, overall a murky situation and as usual, the only winners are likely to be our legal "friends"

 

Wilson

[pop]

My guess is that they would not, if they had any sense

 

This is what they don't have. They have truesense.

 

[Duane Pandorf]

They (Kodak) will also have purchased product liability insurance. However any liability insurance is a policy of indemnity and if the original insured is unable to pay due to insolvency etc, it is necessary to get a court to agree a "cut through" clause for a third party insured to access the original policy. This the courts may or may not do but you can guarantee that the insurers will fight this tooth and nail.

 

Now given that Truesense purchased the business from Kodak's receivers, we would need to know whether or not Truesense agreed to take on the expiring/outstanding liabilities of the Kodak sensor business. My guess is that they would not, if they had any sense and given that it was a buyer's market, have agreed to do so.

 

So, overall a murky situation and as usual, the only winners are likely to be our legal "friends"

 

Wilson

 

On Semiconductor bought Truesense this past April. (ON Semiconductor to Acquire Truesense Imaging, Inc.)

 

Going back through this thread it appeared that many were having long waits to have their CCD repaired/replaced at the end of 2013 going into 2014. Be interesting to see how On Semiconductor is working with Leica and these issues.

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Hallo,

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[david strachan]

As promised, we´d like to address a number of questions you have regarding the issue with our CCD sensor and be as clear as possible.

 

First let us state that we regret any inconveniences you may face and do investigate measures to durably fix the problem while still offering the best possible optical performance.

 

By a repair, we replace the CCD sensor with a sensor of the same type we use for serial production. We can thus not exclude totally a new case of corrosion after repair. Therefore, JJ Viau - Digital Marketing with Stefan Daniel - Director Product Management Photo

Leica Camera

 

Is this a worry?

cheers Dave S