Use of original re-loadable cassettes in LTM’s

[wlaidlaw]

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John (Erl) is encouraging me to get my father’s Leitz daylight bulk film loader out of one of our attics, where it has resided for many years and use it. However from memory (and the loader is buried deep in the attic), there is only one original re-loadable cassette with it and I am 99% sure it is a Contax one. I know the Leitz loader works with both Leica and Contax cassettes but I seem to recall there is something like “Leica cassettes work in Contax cameras but Contax ones don’t work or maybe fit in LTM Leicas.”

 

Before I start “hunt the thimble” to find the loader, which could be in a number of different tea chests hidden behind old luggage, school trunks and furniture, can anyone tell me what the situation is on using Contax cassettes in Leicas and vice versa.

 

Wilson

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[k_g_wolf ✝]

Won´t work.

 

It would - amongst other major coincidents - mean, both cameras also had an

identical rewind mechanism. I think you have to rule this out.

 

 

Best

GEORG

[Michael Hiles]

In fact, there were two versions of the Leica cassettes - one for the LTM cameras and one for the M cameras. I believe that the M versions were backwards compatible, but the LTM versions would not work in an M camera. There is a marking difference, but I don't remember what it is (no need to thank me).

[wlaidlaw]

I think for the number of films I get through a year, it is much easier to stick to pre-loaded cassettes for my LTM, M and Contax cameras.

 

Wilson

[M9reno]

This link should help:

 

choose cassetes

 

I don't know about using Contax cassettes, but the advantages of using Leitz cassettes generally (screwmount cameras can take any Leitz cassette) are worth considering:

 

1. By opening up inside your camera, the Leitz cassette stops all contact between film and cassette. No felt lip equals no risk of scratches from the particles that easily collect there. In my own experience, winding or rewinding the film is also rendered smoother, faster and quieter, especially on a film M. In fact the best word to describe it is delicious.

 

2, More environmentally friendly. Stop throwing away all the plastic and metal of used normal canisters. Even reloadables that use a felt lip have a limited lifespan (because of point 1 above). Leitz cassettes are immortal.

 

3. Think you might only need a short roll of 12? 24? exposures for a little outing? You have the freedom to load as little as you want.

 

4. Leitz cassettes are beautifully engineered. They are a pleasure to use, and even to collect.

[wlaidlaw]

Al,

 

Many thanks for posting that link. I should have realised that our hirsute rangefinder expert, Mr. Hicks would have written something on it. I see most of the Leica cassettes on Fleabay are the early black mushroom FILCA models which are LTM only, as opposed to the later chrome mushroom ones which are LTM and M, according to Roger. However another source gives different information, which says the early FILCA model is LTM only, whereas the later IXMOO is I, II, IIIG and M only. As my LTM’s are a model II and a IIF, the later ones may not work in them.

 

Hmmmmm - as I posted above, maybe easier to stick to pre-loaded cassettes, where I know they will fit in all of my 35mm cameras, Leica LTM and M or Contax RF.

 

At least we can still get 35mm film. I have just stuck the tab down on my very last roll of black and white (Rollei Retro) 127 film, preparatory to sending it off for processing today. I am now limited to Japanese Murano colour negative film on my Rollei Baby unless the unlikely occurs, that someone restarts B&W 127 film production.

 

Wilson

[TomB_tx]

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The LTM cassettes are longer, since the LTM body kept the longer depth of the original design Leica, designed before commercial packaged film was available. As other 35mm cameras were designed, some used a shorter body depth and shorter cassettes of their own design, so when film companies designed the "standard" package it was short enough to fit all models. By the 1950s nearly everyone used packaged film, so Leica designed the M3 for the shorter commercial film depth; thus had to design the shorter cassette for bulk-loading for the M3.

The shorter cassettes will work in all Leica models, but in older models (IIIc and earlier) the shorter cassette may pull the film downward so the frames are mis-aligned, just like with pre-packaged film in these models. The IIIf added a guide on the baseplate to prevent this, and changed the body casting so the guide can fit up past the lowest film rail to guide the film. (That's why a IIIf base won't fit a IIIc. I also have an earlier III factory-upgraded to IIIf that won't take a IIIf baseplate, because although it uses the IIIf body casting, it wasn't machined to fit the guide finger of the IIIf plate, since it kept the plate from the original model. Cost-savings even back then.)

A lot of camera companies in the 1950s had custom cassettes, and many are very well made. An interesting collectable side-line. Most fit only the specific model and won't interchange, although either Nicca or Leotax (I forget which) copied Leica so exactly the Leica cassettes will work.

edit: just checked - my Nicca can use all the 3 models of Leica cassettes - Leotax will not use any of them

[tobey bilek]

LTM cassettes are easy to find. M are same as hens teeth.

 

One can not properly point the "tail" without the Leica fixture, forget what it is called. A precision point needs to be put on with a certain length and angle and it can not go thru a sprocket hole. If you can do this on the dark, bless you. That said, I have purchased some cassettes where the previous owner left a very sloppy tail. Maybe it worked for him.

They work and clean out much better with the proper trim.

 

The generic trimers can be used to produce the tongue, but I can do that with nothing. Only the proper Leitz template will do the point.

 

I will not use film from a factory magazine. An open cassette runs film with NO RESISTANCE thru the camera and there are never marks or fogged edges of any kind.

 

Do yourself a favor and find the loader and a template.

 

A Watson loader is made to take Leica Cassettes and I have loaded many they way. The only problem is the tail is fogged and if you shoot too many frames, you run into fog before the film stops.

 

I would not carry them on an airplane. They look dangerous and no inspector will know what they are. . No commercial processor will know what to do and will lose or damage them. They are strictly DIY today.

[chris_livsey]

I use a surgical tape, Transpore, to attach the film to the IXMOO spool. It adheres very well and tears off the roll by hand easily. If required it removes easily and leaves virtually no residue. If you stick it to spectacle glass then remove it you cannot see the the adhesion footprint. Micropore is similar but does not tear as well. Your local pharmacy will have or can order (UK brand names).

 

With a Watson to get the last frames, if you are really frugal, load the IXMOO in the dark, not difficult if using the tape method, but the term "daylight loader" was coined for a reason

 

Reloadable plastic cassettes are freely available, I have even seen one used by a film supplier with a screw off top.

[wlaidlaw]

Tobey,

 

Many thanks for the update and info. However the more I think about it, the less it makes sense for me. I no longer process my own film as, due to past carelessness about using rubber gloves, I have thoroughly sensitised myself to photo chemicals. I now come out in large red blotches and start wheezing if I go near them. I would have to a) find some LTM plus M cassettes and find someone to send them to for processing. As my Leitz daylight loader is almost certainly pre-war, I don’t know if it even loads the later type cassettes. I have found a picture of a Contax cassette and from memory when all that stuff ended up in a packing crate, the last time we moved house 30 years ago, I am sure the cassette in the box with the loader is a Contax one.

 

Wilson

[gyoung]

LTM cassettes are easy to find. M are same as hens teeth.

 

snip..

 

Are the M ones really 'hens teeth? I have a few lurking somewhere I haven't used for years.

 

Gerry

[tobey bilek]

If you have developed a metol sensitivity, do not go in the same room with it. Gloves may help some, but it gets in the air. The more you irritate the sensitivity, it worse it will become.

 

Gloves and a lab hood wold be the only solution which is certainly not practical or use a developer that does not use metol, phenodone is the substitute.

[earleygallery]

OT - Wilson, where do you buy 127 colour neg from?

 

I too have a baby Rollei. I've got a few rolls of B&W left to use in it, and I've seen a video on You Tube showing a very simple way to cut down 120 film with a cigar cutter, so you can respool it on the 127 spool!

 

The other option is to load 35mm film for a bit of a Lomo effect.

[chris_livsey]

I have a few lurking somewhere I haven't used for years.

Gerry

 

Exactly

A lot of people have so open market, available to buy, are

unusual, unless priced at some ridiculous amount on a well know auctio site.