Frustrated... Where is the M9 firmware fix?

[Guido]

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It must not be forgotten that the firmware development for the m9 was done in cooperation with Jenoptic - a competitor of sorts now that Leica is in the medium format business. It may very we'll be that Leica does not have a partner to work with on the firmware. With the new M, the firmware is done in house. As such I would rely on Leica to take care of it better.

If they are not in possession of, and/or unable to exercise control over the firmware code of their current models M-E and MM, yet still continue to make and market these premium cameras while being fully aware of this fact, then they not only have a manufacturing quality issue but a business ethics issue too.

[Guido]

This is why Fuji has released a firmware update for their discontinued X100 model.

BTW, Fuji released yet another X100 update yesterday (!) to fix a minor bug in the previous release:

 

The phenomenon is fixed that in Manual Focus mode, repeated pressing the shutter button halfway or repeated recording images could move focus position and the distance indicator to near side.

 

In Leica-speak, this would be more or less equivalent to:

 

The phenomenon is fixed that in Discreet Shooting mode, repeated pressing the shutter button could lock up the camera.

 

So much for Leica vs. Japanese consumer electronics...

[mjh]

Although I'm obviously joking I really am afraid that Leica just do not have the resources to focus on both models.

They never had the resources to do firmware development für the M8, M9, or M Monochrom; that has always been done by Jenoptik. Leica does firmware development for the M, though.

[jaapv]

Nor the DMR, which did get a couple of late firmware updates, however.

[marcg]

They never had the resources to do firmware development für the M8, M9, or M Monochrom; that has always been done by Jenoptik. Leica does firmware development for the M, though.

 

Does this then mean that M8 and M9 customers just get written off?

[JPH1962]

as long as Leica remains silent and does not communicate a vision on these issues I strongly believe that the M9 and possibly even the MM customers are left behind. For the M8 customers (no screen replacments available anymore as they claim) this is the case already....

[marcg]

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Yes - a lack of communication is a very poor strategy. It undermines any sense of bonding with the company - and of course if there is no news then it is normally - bad news, which is not being shared.

[marcg]

Talk of the devil

 

As of last week, Leica is not repairing M8's with faulty electronics anymore (shutter assembly & motherboard). I believe sensor replacement is out of question, only re-mapping is offered if applicable.

 

According to some unconfirmed insider info, faulty M9 sensors have a close to zero chance to be replaced (I personally know people still waiting for sensor damage service).

 

Aside personal affections and inclinations, the above strongly undermines "real" M8 and M9 resale value except when the buyer is utterly uninformed on digital M's servicing constraints (as it seems it is still always the case as of today).

 

Best,

 

M

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/digital-forum/303685-sony-a7-thread-merged-125.html#post2561368

[jaapv]

This is an unconfirmed rumour originating in Italy. Leica has made no such statement.

 

It sounds not very believable, as Leica has mentioned at least ten years as the support goal for the M8 (apart from the well-documented LCD problems) and the M9 sensor is still used for the current ME and, in a way, the Monochrom.

 

But I guess repeating it on the Internet turns it into the Gospel Truth......

[marcg]

This is an unconfirmed rumour originating in Italy. Leica has made no such statement.

 

But then it has already been established that Leica tends not to communicate.

 

Has Leica made any recent statement which indicates that the contrary is true?

[jaapv]

This is a question in the order of " when did you stop beating your wife? "

 

Why should they react to every rumour? On the Internet one would need a dedicated employee to do so.

 

And how was it established that Leica does not communicate? On the contrary, they are far more open and approachable than the competition.

[marcg]

Approachable, yes - but communicative? That doesn't seem to be the general impression on this forum.

 

Also, it is easy to be approachable when the approaches or queries fit into your standard structure.

When questions become uncomfortable, they may have a tendency to rock the boat in an unwelcome way.

 

I always feel that customer service facilities exist to channel off customer complaints into the company's way of doing things - and often to provide a feel-good factor without going the final mile.

 

So far as reacting to every rumour goes, it would be very easy for a designated customer rep to have an official presence on this site, for instance and to contribute at least to some discussions.

 

I know of at least one consumer-related website where reps from a variety of companies - mobile phone, utilities, retail chains, insurance companies, do precisely this - and it works very well - and they take some real flak, I can tell you.

[mjh]

Does this then mean that M8 and M9 customers just get written off?

No, it does not.

[IkarusJohn]

They never had the resources to do firmware development für the M8, M9, or M Monochrom; that has always been done by Jenoptik. Leica does firmware development for the M, though.

 

I love this reasoning. It comes up often in my work - the contractor simply says "sorry, I got let down by my supplier", to which I respond "I understand, now go and fix it - this is your responsibility".

 

Yes, it's electronics; and yes, Leica subcontracted the firmware development to someone else. So? They sold the camera on the strength of the quality of their optics and their long term relationship with their customers and support they provide - I will keep quoting Leica's "camera for life" philosophy as they continue to use it to sell their cameras.

 

Even if their relationship with Jenoptik has gone completely sour (which I doubt) and they have no rights to the underlying code, they are entitled to insist that Jenoptik fix it. Despite what appears to be Leica's surprisingly poor supply chain management, and even if they had a crap or non-existent formal written agreement with Jenoptik, I would expect German contract law to at least impose an obligation on suppliers to warrant what they supply and to fix it,

 

This maintaining silence and hoping problems go away attitude of Leica's is very irritating. Maybe the problem genuinely cannot be fixed at all, in which case they're worried angry M9 owners may insist on a similar discounted upgrade path as offered to M8 owners. Or perhaps they have that common affliction where they are genetically incapable of admitting a mistake and saying sorry.

 

Cheers

John

[Guest malland]

...So far as reacting to every rumour goes, it would be very easy for a designated customer rep to have an official presence on this site, for instance and to contribute at least to some discussions...

Now, this is a truly absurd suggestion. Some one-man, or two- or three-man companies have a presence on websites for marketing purposes; but companies that are somewhat larger than this and more well-known, such as Leica, do not do this for obvious reasons.

 

Or are you saying this because you feel lonely? As they say, if you feel you need a friend, get a dog.

 

—Mitch/Chiang Mai

Looking for Baudelaire [WIP]

[IkarusJohn]

Or are you saying this because you feel lonely? As they say, if you feel you need a friend, get a dog.

 

Nice.

 

Actually, Leica has commented on more than one occasion that they do monitor this forum; also, it would be very surprising if manufacturers did not monitor a forum which is solely for users of its products. They don't need to answer every rumour, they should answer every complaint, and it would be sensible to have a very good idea what your biggest and most loyal group of existing and future customers is saying.

 

Then again, you could just get on with what you want to do, and think to yourself "I do wish these pesky customers would go away" ... We all know where that leads.

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Everybody,

 

A future direction that Leica might consider that might alleviate some of the technological/financial burden of problems with sensors, electronics, software, etc could be:

 

To consider modularization of as many of the camera's components as possible so that when there is a problem a smaller portion of the total body would be effected.

 

Example of degree of modularity today: There is a problem with the sensor or the electronics or the software:

 

Photographer removes lens. Send body for repair/adjustment. Possible replacement.

 

Posssible tomorrow: There is a problem with the sensor or the electronics or the software:

 

Photographer leaves lens, body casting & covering, range/viewfinder (as long as they continue being available), shutter, etc at home. Send the sensor or the electronics or the software for repair/adjustment. Possible replacement.

 

This was proposed in the 1980's as a possibility for all digital cameras of all brands & all formats when digital photography was first being developed to replace film.

 

You can do it today with a Hasselblad 500C from the 1950's. Leica might look at this direction for the future.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

[Guest malland]

...Actually, Leica has commented on more than one occasion that they do monitor this forum; also, it would be very surprising if manufacturers did not monitor a forum which is solely for users of its products. They don't need to answer every rumour, they should answer every complaint, and it would be sensible to have a very good idea what your biggest and most loyal group of existing and future customers is saying.

 

Then again, you could just get on with what you want to do, and think to yourself "I do wish these pesky customers would go away" ... We all know where that leads.

Of course it makes sense for Leica to monitor the forum. All I was saying was that it would not make sense for them to have someone participate in discussions here, as had been suggested in the post I was responding to.

 

—Mitch/Chiang Mai

Looking for Baudelaire [WIP]

[Ozkar]

This is an unconfirmed rumour originating in Italy. Leica has made no such statement.

 

It sounds not very believable, as Leica has mentioned at least ten years as the support goal for the M8 (apart from the well-documented LCD problems) and the M9 sensor is still used for the current ME and, in a way, the Monochrom.

 

But I guess repeating it on the Internet turns it into the Gospel Truth......

 

I know of one Leica dealer that is just sitting on 4 used M9's with delaminating sensors because Leica is unable to supply replacement sensors. Another dealer I buy from ordered an M-E around 9 months ago and is yet to receive it. Is it possible Leica is running out of CCD sensors?

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[marcg]

 

Or are you saying this because you feel lonely? As they say, if you feel you need a friend, get a dog.

 

Thank you for introducing an offensive tone into this very decent discussion.

You don't do yourself or the thread or the forum any favours.

 

Now, this is a truly absurd suggestion. Some one-man, or two- or three-man companies have a presence on websites for marketing purposes; but companies that are somewhat larger than this and more well-known, such as Leica, do not do this for obvious reasons.

 

It is not at all absurd and if you understood something about customer relations and marketing you would realise this.

In fact the small businesses that you refer to would be hard-pressed to run their successful enterprises and afford the logistics of responding on forums.

It is precisely larger companies which do do this.

 

It makes even more Leica to have some kind of engagement with this forum because as has been pointed out, this is a single product forum - and of it's type, it is probably the largest and most influential.

 

Of course, where it doesn't make sense for a company not to get involved in open discussions, is where they are worried that they will face flak from their customers and they would rather keep their heads down.

 

However, as I have pointed out above, many large companies such as mobile phone companies, energy companies etc are mature enough to put their heads above the parapet.