The Sony A7 thread [Merged]

[Rick]

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SH states in his second review that 28mm is going to have problems on the A7R:Day Two: Sony A7 and A7r with Zeiss Otus and more! | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS

 

"In regards to Leica M Mount lenses using adapters…The A7r has issues with the 12, 15 and 21mm focal length, even 28mm to some extent. The A7 had some slight vignetting with the 15 and 21 but no real color shift. Not nearly as much as the A7r. So if you are one who was planning on using WIDE ANGLE Leica M mount glass, go for the A7."

 

So, if 28mm and wider is going to cause problems on the A7R, I'm now looking at M lenses at 50mm+ (I don't need 35mm as I have the RX1). But, I've seen some examples of 50mm lenses that look mushy in the corners and chromatic aberration even centrally looks kind of doggy.

 

This is not looking like RickLeica's next camera or adjunct camera for my M-lenses. It's early and I'll hang on to my B&H super early pre-order for the time and wait for a more comprehensive review.

 

Maybe it will work well for longer R-lenses for me... but, the A7R is still a real chunk of money for use with just my long R-lenses...and the M already does a good job for this and has the correction coded for the 280/4 (not sure what is needed, but I am starting to realize that the coding may do something even at these lengths).

 

On the brighter side, that 55/1.4 Zeiss that SH used on the A7R-SCBL* looked pretty darn good... to gigantic for me, but it is probably going to produce top quality images on that A7R-SCBL*.

 

 

*SCBL=Small Camera Big Lenses:rolleyes:

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[k-hawinkler]

I presume the Nikon F version of that lens will handle nicely on an D800/E!

[IkarusJohn]

This is not looking like RickLeica's next camera or adjunct camera for my M-lenses. It's early and I'll hang on to my B&H super early pre-order for the time and wait for a more comprehensive review.

 

Nor mine - disappointing.

[Guest malland]

Nor mine - disappointing.

This could be called "self-inflicted disappointment" because one shouldn't really expect Sony to aim this camera for M-lenses. We also know that design a full-frame sensor camera that could work well with wide-angle M-lenses was not child's play. However, we did see that Ricoh made the GXR M-Module for M-lenses, which worked well — but that was an APS-C sensor. Of course the A7/A7R cameras are likely to be very good for the Zeiss lenses designed for these cameras, although in the great scheme of things, it's not something that interests me because of my view on the uniqueness of the M9 color rendition.

 

—Mitch/Paris

Looking for Baudelaire [WIP]

[Ozkar]

SH states in his second review that 28mm is going to have problems on the A7R:Day Two: Sony A7 and A7r with Zeiss Otus and more! | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS

 

"In regards to Leica M Mount lenses using adapters…The A7r has issues with the 12, 15 and 21mm focal length, even 28mm to some extent. The A7 had some slight vignetting with the 15 and 21 but no real color shift. Not nearly as much as the A7r. So if you are one who was planning on using WIDE ANGLE Leica M mount glass, go for the A7."

 

So, if 28mm and wider is going to cause problems on the A7R, I'm now looking at M lenses at 50mm+ (I don't need 35mm as I have the RX1). But, I've seen some examples of 50mm lenses that look mushy in the corners and chromatic aberration even centrally looks kind of doggy.

 

This is not looking like RickLeica's next camera or adjunct camera for my M-lenses. It's early and I'll hang on to my B&H super early pre-order for the time and wait for a more comprehensive review.

 

Maybe it will work well for longer R-lenses for me... but, the A7R is still a real chunk of money for use with just my long R-lenses...and the M already does a good job for this and has the correction coded for the 280/4 (not sure what is needed, but I am starting to realize that the coding may do something even at these lengths).

 

On the brighter side, that 55/1.4 Zeiss that SH used on the A7R-SCBL* looked pretty darn good... to gigantic for me, but it is probably going to produce top quality images on that A7R-SCBL*.

 

 

*SCBL=Small Camera Big Lenses:rolleyes:

 

 

I'm not sure if you read both Part II and III of Steve Huff's rolling Sony review. Here's a couple of excerpts:

 

"I had the little Zeiss 21 2.8 ZM on the A7 and there is slight vignetting but as you will see below in a color shot, no real issues. On my M this lens had some slight color shifts."

 

"The Voigtlander 35 1.2 II is doing mighty fine on the A7 or A7r and I prefer using it on these cameras over using it on the Leica M. It is easy to focus using the EVF and Focus Peaking and I can MF faster than I can on my M."

 

Based on these observations, the A7 is indeed a viable alternative to the M240.

[janki]

For Leica M lenses - maybe - maybe not?

 

However, - we would probably not say no to this variant, - custom made for us!

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[Rick]

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I'm not sure if you read both Part II and III of Steve Huff's rolling Sony review. Here's a couple of excerpts:

 

"I had the little Zeiss 21 2.8 ZM on the A7 and there is slight vignetting but as you will see below in a color shot, no real issues. On my M this lens had some slight color shifts."

 

"The Voigtlander 35 1.2 II is doing mighty fine on the A7 or A7r and I prefer using it on these cameras over using it on the Leica M. It is easy to focus using the EVF and Focus Peaking and I can MF faster than I can on my M."

 

Based on these observations, the A7 is indeed a viable alternative to the M240.

 

Yes, I did see those. I have the A7R on order and he stated that the A7R had some problems with those lenses and he would get the A7... but, I already have the M240 and it is 24MP and it is optimized for the M-lenses. So, for me it is looking like there is nothing here.

 

I know he states M-lenses are easier to focus on the Sonys... then, another reviewer stated that the consensus of photographers at this same Sony event was that the these cameras don't MF accurately at all. So, I'm just starting to realize that, for me, there may not be anything here. I am totally certain this is going to be a killer camera for a lot of photographers.

 

But, hey, I still got an M240... how luck am I?

[MarkP]

Yes I think it's not for me either .

 

Rick and John, we'll just have to slum it with our crap digital Leica bodies and lenses .

[naturephoto1]

Yes, I did see those. I have the A7R on order and he stated that the A7R had some problems with those lenses and he would get the A7... but, I already have the M240 and it is 24MP and it is optimized for the M-lenses. So, for me it is looking like there is nothing here.

 

I know he states M-lenses are easier to focus on the Sonys... then, another reviewer stated that the consensus of photographers at this same Sony event was that the these cameras don't MF accurately at all. So, I'm just starting to realize that, for me, there may not be anything here. I am totally certain this is going to be a killer camera for a lot of photographers.

 

But, hey, I still got an M240... how luck am I?

 

My suspicion is that the photographers indicating that the lenses were not accurate for MF lenses are not that familiar with using magnified view.

 

Rich

[Ozkar]

Yes, I did see those. I have the A7R on order and he stated that the A7R had some problems with those lenses and he would get the A7... but, I already have the M240 and it is 24MP and it is optimized for the M-lenses. So, for me it is looking like there is nothing here.

 

I know he states M-lenses are easier to focus on the Sonys... then, another reviewer stated that the consensus of photographers at this same Sony event was that the these cameras don't MF accurately at all. So, I'm just starting to realize that, for me, there may not be anything here. I am totally certain this is going to be a killer camera for a lot of photographers.

 

But, hey, I still got an M240... how luck am I?

 

The reviewer you referred to just used focus-peaking, not magnified LV. The difference in accuracy between these two methods is enormous. Focus peaking is like best guess focussing. Magnified LV is 100% accurate.

 

Steve Huff is very proficient with using MF lenses on both rangefinders and mirrorless cameras and I value his opinion in this area.

[Rick]

The reviewer you referred to just used focus-peaking, not magnified LV. The difference in accuracy between these two methods is enormous. Focus peaking is like best guess focussing. Magnified LV is 100% accurate.

 

Steve Huff is very proficient with using MF lenses on both rangefinders and mirrorless cameras and I value his opinion in this area.

 

I could sure agree with that. I am not sure why I hate to say this, but Steve Huff's photos are the best by far of anything that has been posted, both artistically and technically.

 

This is going to be a great camera. But, why wouldn't it be? It is just looking like it is not my cup of tea. What would you expect from RickLeica?

[algrove]

Well, it looks like Europe and Asia will be getting deliveries a few weeks (perhaps) earlier that those in the US. As such, we will have to defer to them to help guide us once REAL deliveries are being made and they have a chance to test M lenses (preferably wide) on whatever Sony they have ordered. Sure sounds like most have ordered the a7r.

[charlesphoto99]

Since most of you already have the creme de la creme (seriously, you really need another camera??!!) why not wait a year for the A8? I'm sure it will be much much better.

 

Surprised nobody has mentioned the upcoming Nikon announcement. If Nikon actually put out an FM or F3 sized/styled body (with the D4 sensor at that), then I'm all over it. I think the size thing is becoming over rated. I recently bought a Ricoh GR, ya know, to take with me wherever. Used it like twice and now boxed up ready to sell. Not going down that road again. Much prefer lugging along a 'real' camera (i.e. my M9 or MM with a 28 'cron). Not that an M is exactly 'lugging.'

 

I actually find that having classic controls (i.e. manual focus, top shutter speed dial, etc) actually allows me to shoot better and easier than having to remember which goddamn spin wheel controls what. Just the way I think.

 

Okay, my rant. Nice thing is I know patience pays off as there's always something new down the road and itchy wallets who need the next best and will sell off their last 'best ever' camera for a discount.

[Ozkar]

Since most of you already have the creme de la creme (seriously, you really need another camera??!!) why not wait a year for the A8? I'm sure it will be much much better.

 

Surprised nobody has mentioned the upcoming Nikon announcement. If Nikon actually put out an FM or F3 sized/styled body (with the D4 sensor at that), then I'm all over it. I think the size thing is becoming over rated. I recently bought a Ricoh GR, ya know, to take with me wherever. Used it like twice and now boxed up ready to sell. Not going down that road again. Much prefer lugging along a 'real' camera (i.e. my M9 or MM with a 28 'cron). Not that an M is exactly 'lugging.'

 

I actually find that having classic controls (i.e. manual focus, top shutter speed dial, etc) actually allows me to shoot better and easier than having to remember which goddamn spin wheel controls what. Just the way I think.

 

Okay, my rant. Nice thing is I know patience pays off as there's always something new down the road and itchy wallets who need the next best and will sell off their last 'best ever' camera for a discount.

 

I sold my M9P with the intention of buying an M240. But after shooting with a loaner for a week, I concluded that for my needs it is no better than an M9. I still need to focus/recompose. And wide angles still require the use of an OVF (LV did not pass muster).

 

I fully agree that external dials make for a much better shooting experience ... it took me around a minute or so to work out how to set exposure compensation on the M240. On the Sony A7/R, you just turn a dial.

 

The Nikon DF looks interesting but it is just a DSLR and can only mount Nikon glass. It will also not have a video mode.

 

The new Sony's can mount Nikon, Canon, Sony and, most importantly, Leica M glass. Hence, the enormous interest. And reports to date indicate that they're a step up from the M240 in terms of IQ and usability.

[almoore]

A few observations having just handled a demo A7 and A7R at one of the Sony Stores in Hong Kong...

 

The camera feels very light but also very well balanced with the 35 or 55. The shutter release is nowhere near as loud as I expected and probably no worse than an M9 (I didn't compare side by side), and, importantly, despite the noise there's no obvious accompanying kick. The EVF seems very good and the control dials are nicely weighted. Sony staff say that the bodies are expected to arrive in HK "mid-November", the 35 f2.8 "end of November" and the 55 "early 2014".

[almoore]

reports to date indicate that they're a step up from the M240 in terms of IQ and usability.

 

I suspect that might well be the case, but only with the native Zeiss lenses and only if you prefer an EVF to a rangefinder.

 

An M is still the obvious choice for Leica lenses.

[CaptZoom]

I don't think the emphasis on size is overrated. And by the same token, I think the M9 made it largely irrelevant for full frame camera bodies. At this point FF bodies can not be significantly made smaller and even if they were, there's still the issue of a minimum lens size especially if incorporating autofocus and/or stabilization. I think one of the major advantages of the m4/3 system is the size (both bodies and lenses), though the current flagship, Oly EM1, is pretty fraking close to the size of the M240.

 

Interestingly, the Ziess Otus is gigantic even without autofocus and stabilization. Consider the size difference between it mounted on a D800E and an M with a 50 lux, and size advantages become readily apparent. The former would make for a terrible experience being used all day, the latter not so much. Of course comparing an M+50 lux to a EM5+Paneica 50 lux easily takes the advantage away from the Leica.

 

Since most of you already have the creme de la creme (seriously, you really need another camera??!!) why not wait a year for the A8? I'm sure it will be much much better.

 

Surprised nobody has mentioned the upcoming Nikon announcement. If Nikon actually put out an FM or F3 sized/styled body (with the D4 sensor at that), then I'm all over it. I think the size thing is becoming over rated. I recently bought a Ricoh GR, ya know, to take with me wherever. Used it like twice and now boxed up ready to sell. Not going down that road again. Much prefer lugging along a 'real' camera (i.e. my M9 or MM with a 28 'cron). Not that an M is exactly 'lugging.'

 

I actually find that having classic controls (i.e. manual focus, top shutter speed dial, etc) actually allows me to shoot better and easier than having to remember which goddamn spin wheel controls what. Just the way I think.

 

Okay, my rant. Nice thing is I know patience pays off as there's always something new down the road and itchy wallets who need the next best and will sell off their last 'best ever' camera for a discount.

[luigi bertolotti]

Interestingly, the Ziess Otus is gigantic....

 

Maybe a silly question.. but WHY is that lens SO big ?

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[Guest]

Because it was designed that way ?

"Big is beautiful". Everybody builds the smallest whatever in the camera industry.

The biggest normal lens for 24X36 will be a title valid for a long time imo.

 

When it comes to the superfluous every rationale and its exact opposite are being used.

 

And because they did not know about the 1.4/58 Nikon lens ?

[dwbell]

I think it's probably not the hero some hoped it would be.

I think it's probably not the zero some now think it will be.

 

I think shooting with it in my bag will tell me all I nee to know.

 

So far, with AF Zeiss glass made for the sensor it's blowing me away in a package lighter, similar in size and much cheaper than my Leica gear.

 

Edit : again for reference I shoot 35 50 75