dwbell Posted October 17, 2013 Share #781 Posted October 17, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Sony has replaced expensive "hard" analogue quality buttons with "soft" lousy low-quality poor handling buttons. Again a camera not designed for photographers. Sony was so close... IQ will probably be great, but this is my personal subjective opinion on handling; But hey, its me that makes my buying choices . Where did you get your hands on one? I'd love to feel them!? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 17, 2013 Posted October 17, 2013 Hi dwbell, Take a look here The Sony A7 thread [Merged]. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
dwbell Posted October 17, 2013 Share #782 Posted October 17, 2013 Ckeck 5:15 into this . Stick a red dot on it and the shutter sound won't be a problem for a good 3 years. Until the next A7 comes out and suddenly everyone will admit it was atrocious. I don't do street stealth, my subjects know I'm taking a picture, so for me it's not an issue. I'm in love with the shutter sound on my M240 though..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyalf Posted October 17, 2013 Share #783 Posted October 17, 2013 Where did you get your hands on one? I'd love to feel them!? Take a look at the photos and let us know if you see any f/ or exposure markings? Spotting any mechanical focus ring on the lenses? No, because their not designed by photographers for photographers, but by software designers for the same segments that happily buy iStuff because they do not want to put any effort into whatever their doing, in this case photography. Sorry about this rant, I do wish Sony could have used input from photographers in their design. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterv Posted October 17, 2013 Share #784 Posted October 17, 2013 Sony has replaced expensive "hard" analogue quality buttons with "soft" lousy low-quality poor handling buttons. Again a camera not designed for photographers. Sony was so close... Well, it's not like the new Sony has low build quality. I'm sure the buttons will out-live the electronics. In a few years there will be more attractive offerings in the camera market, as allways. A photographer looking for the best ROI might to be better off with a 2,5k Sony than a 7k Leica Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterv Posted October 17, 2013 Share #785 Posted October 17, 2013 Take a look at the photos and let us know if you see any f/ or exposure markings? Spotting any mechanical focus ring on the lenses? No, because their not designed by photographers for photographers, but by software designers for the same segments that happily buy iStuff because they do not want to put any effort into whatever their doing, in this case photography. Sorry about this rant, I do wish Sony could have used input from photographers in their design. Are you saying the S is not a photographers camera? It has DMF and no aperture ring, just like the new Sony's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecaton Posted October 17, 2013 Share #786 Posted October 17, 2013 Take a look at the photos and let us know if you see any f/ or exposure markings? Spotting any mechanical focus ring on the lenses? No, because their not designed by photographers for photographers, but by software designers for the same segments that happily buy iStuff because they do not want to put any effort into whatever their doing, in this case photography. Sorry about this rant, I do wish Sony could have used input from photographers in their design. I`ll have a A7r with plenty of focus and aperture rings on the lenses as it will be used with my many M lenses. And you know what, for very fast and for longer lenses and for off center image focusing its focus peaking will even come in handy and beat the RF patch overlay technique by some margin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
almoore Posted October 17, 2013 Share #787 Posted October 17, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Take a look at the photos and let us know if you see any f/ or exposure markings? Spotting any mechanical focus ring on the lenses? No, because their not designed by photographers for photographers...I do wish Sony could have used input from photographers in their design. I'm not sure what lenses you've seen, but the Zeiss 35 and 55 appear to have really substantial focusing rings. As for mechanical f stops, having used Canon EOS cameras for years and knowing how well thumb and finger wheels work for aperture and shutter settings I really couldn't care less. Not all photographers think alike as to what makes a camera intuitive to work with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted October 17, 2013 Share #788 Posted October 17, 2013 But EVF's will never be able to give you what a rangefinder does (no shutter blackout, see outside the frame lines, etc). I know what you're saying, and you give a balanced view. HOwever, never bet against technology and saying "EVF's will NEVER give you..." is doing just that. Imagine a square sensor. Full frame in width and height. You select portrait, landscape, square etc in a menu, no need to rotate the camera at all. It's 36MP (or bigger) so you can effectively shoot a 50mm with a 35mm and see outside a sofwaret-frame shown in the EVF, just in camera cropping sure, but Jaap only needs 18MP so why not, right? Then blackout. It's electronics, it will get quicker, smaller, cheaper, better at an insane rate. I can imagine the "blackout" will easily become almost imperceptible to the human eye at some stage. So a bit convoluted, but, never say never where technology is concerned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted October 17, 2013 Share #789 Posted October 17, 2013 Take a look at the photos and let us know if you see any f/ or exposure markings? Spotting any mechanical focus ring on the lenses? No, because their not designed by photographers for photographers, but by software designers for the same segments that happily buy iStuff because they do not want to put any effort into whatever their doing, in this case photography. Sorry about this rant, I do wish Sony could have used input from photographers in their design. Ok, I'm going to pass on this discussion as you're clearly going in with a heavy bias towards what YOU prefer. Which is fine, but prohibits a discussion. I am a photographer. You don't speak for me when say "not designed for photographers" you speak for only yourself. I can easily work with a very accurate, real time, EVF representation of DoF which I find preferable to the now out of date markings on the lens barrel which actually conform to Film CoCs. And there are plenty of focus ring area on the lenses I've seen (and ordered). My 35mm summicron could learn a thing or two here! As for the buttons - you haven't held it or depressed them? So, ya know? WTF? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted October 17, 2013 Share #790 Posted October 17, 2013 I know what you're saying, and you give a balanced view. HOwever, never bet against technology and saying "EVF's will NEVER give you..." is doing just that..So a bit convoluted, but, never say never where technology is concerned. So think that looking through an EVF will eventually not feel like looking with a TV camera? Just a question — I have no idea. —Mitch/Paris Paris au rhythme de Basquiat and Other Poems [download link for book project] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted October 17, 2013 Share #791 Posted October 17, 2013 So think that looking through an EVF will eventually not feel like looking with a TV camera? Just a question — I have no idea. —Mitch/Paris Paris au rhythme de Basquiat and Other Poems [download link for book project] D'ya know what Mitch. I find looking through an EVF like looking at ground glass. It "pre-flattens" for me, as glass did. TTL on my canon and RF on my Leica's now feel 'harder' to compose. It's too real, too 3D. Many say the upside down back to front nature of ground glass helps them compose as it (hopefully) abstracts the scene into balanced shapes and forms. I say the same is true of EVF. For me. Further, many will (and do) scoff at the ability to "see" in B&W in an EVF. Feeling offended at the technological reduction of a craft they learnt the hard way - to see tone, not colour. Again, I don't care if you studied with Ansel Adams for 30 years at his side carrying his tripod - If tech can allow me to pre-visualise in B&W BECAUSE IT IS IN B&W - then I'll take that 30 year jump in education and move on with my part of the whole thing - the art, my art. Which people only see the end product of. edit - it occurs to me that "upside down back to front" is perfectly achievable with software, in real time on the LCD or the EVF. The wonders of software! ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted October 17, 2013 Share #792 Posted October 17, 2013 This post stood out (sorry, Olaf) No need to feel sorry. The points he had raised are still valid. Like him I think it was a bad idea to shoehorn a full-frame sensor into something that is basically an APS-C system – understandable from a marketing perspective as Sony evidently wants to streamline their portfolio into a single system with a single mount, but a harebrained decision from a technical viewpoint. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyalf Posted October 17, 2013 Share #793 Posted October 17, 2013 @ Peter D Lux 2, Peter D Lux 2, Ecaton, almoore, dwbell. You might make good points on EVF and whatnot as well as your personal preferences possibly representing volumes of other photographers. My point was and still is on the lack of tactile interfaces. Humans are made in a certain way, and there are good and bad design in supporting how to interface in particular for such a specific tool as a camera. To bad consumers are fooled by marketing to believe that bad design are the one to blindly promote in Internet forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted October 17, 2013 Share #794 Posted October 17, 2013 No need to feel sorry. The points he had raised are still valid. Like him I think it was a bad idea to shoehorn a full-frame sensor into something that is basically an APS-C system – understandable from a marketing perspective as Sony evidently wants to streamline their portfolio into a single system with a single mount, but a harebrained decision from a technical viewpoint. Can you please expand on this Michael? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth3kpl Posted October 17, 2013 Share #795 Posted October 17, 2013 I tried the fuji Evf of the xpro and, indoors I was sure I was looking through the ovf. I've good eyesight by the way. I believe the Sony evf is better. The fuji and Sony evfs are way ahead of the gxr and,I imagine, the Olympus / Leica. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted October 17, 2013 Share #796 Posted October 17, 2013 @ Peter D Lux 2, Peter D Lux 2, Ecaton, almoore, dwbell. You might make good points on EVF and whatnot as well as your personal preferences possibly representing volumes of other photographers. My point was and still is on the lack of tactile interfaces. Humans are made in a certain way, and there are good and bad design in supporting how to interface in particular for such a specific tool as a camera. To bad consumers are fooled by marketing to believe that bad design are the one to blindly promote in Internet forum. I stand by my no discussion possible post above. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
almoore Posted October 17, 2013 Share #797 Posted October 17, 2013 @ Peter D Lux 2, Peter D Lux 2, Ecaton, almoore, dwbell....You might make good points on EVF and whatnot as well as your personal preferences possibly representing volumes of other photographers. My point was and still is on the lack of tactile interfaces. Humans are made in a certain way... Tellingly, the humans who've actually had this camera in their hands all appear to report that its tactile qualities are lovely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
naturephoto1 Posted October 17, 2013 Share #798 Posted October 17, 2013 No need to feel sorry. The points he had raised are still valid. Like him I think it was a bad idea to shoehorn a full-frame sensor into something that is basically an APS-C system – understandable from a marketing perspective as Sony evidently wants to streamline their portfolio into a single system with a single mount, but a harebrained decision from a technical viewpoint. Regardless, and whatever the naysayers indicated, Sony still accomplished what many thought to be foolhardy or near impossible in making a camera based upon the E-mount and only a little larger than an RX1 that was FF that accepted interchangeable lenses. Now we will have to wait to see how well these new cameras actually will perform with the WA M lenses. These cameras will however certainly upset the status quo and force the competition to do something in short order or they stand the chance of losing market share. Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
naturephoto1 Posted October 17, 2013 Share #799 Posted October 17, 2013 Tellingly, the humans who've actually had this camera in their hands all appear to report that its tactile qualities are lovely. And that was apparently with both native as well as MF Leica M lenses. Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
naturephoto1 Posted October 17, 2013 Share #800 Posted October 17, 2013 I tried the fuji Evf of the xpro and, indoors I was sure I was looking through the ovf. I've good eyesight by the way. I believe the Sony evf is better. The fuji and Sony evfs are way ahead of the gxr and,I imagine, the Olympus / Leica.Pete The EVF in the Sony A7 and A7r is supposed to be the same one as I understand it as the new Olympus EM1. Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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