The Sony A7 thread [Merged]

[TomB_tx]

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I ordered an A7 today. It won't replace my M9, but can be a backup, and give a FF digital solution for my R lenses as well as my collection of Pentax and other 70s SLR lenses. Clearly worth a try...

[CalArts 99]

Amen. Anything they bring to market now, in this vein, is going to look pretty poor. They had their chance and blew it.

 

For me, "Leica" ended with the film M body. Like some others, I expected/hoped that a digital Leica would be just like using a mechanical film Leica with the very same tactile feel; the size, the weight, the sound, and of course with the rangefinder. And with state of the art electronics to match the price tag.

 

I tried living with the M9 (for about a year) and discovered that it didn't have those same qualities that had initially attracted me to Leica decades ago. Yes, the digital image quality was good but nothing truly extraordinary. And so I kept my film M bodies and lenses and went to other brands for digital. But perhaps the problem was that it was wrong for me to expect using a mechanical film Leica was going to be the same as using the digital version. So maybe the desire of that being possible (or even practical) was just the wrong thinking to begin with.

 

So maybe it's even wrong that the Leica M should have been made into a digital version in the first place. The DSLR evolved from the SLR in part due to the existing design concepts of single lens reflex cameras and lenses, but also in part to ease new users into digital capture. But now with quickly advancing technologies (e.g., like the EVF) the idea of what a camera 'should be' is truly shifting.

 

This insistence on keeping the M form factor is obviously important for Leica which is a company that has invested heavily in its history, and in one specific concept. And with all that illustrious history they can attach a very high price tag (but arguably with an increasingly smaller return in image quality given today's technically advanced digital capture market.)

 

But they should be at a point where they need to reconsider where they can actually go with the M design. They play around with products like the X2 and X Vario but those products tend to be out of date the moment they reach the shelves (they certainly aren't ground breaking products.) And emphasizing things like 'build quality' can only go so far. Materials and production/assembly are advancing everywhere and 'build quality' is no longer that exclusive.

 

There was a real reason for me to choose to use Leica film camera bodies. But with digital I feel that reason has pretty much disappeared. And as much as I like their lenses (the optics and the size), modern manufacturing has allowed for other equally good lenses and at half the price.

 

With a camera selling at 7000USD, build quality and an optical rangefinder just isn't enough. With film, it was enough. But digital requires advanced electronics, state of the art sensors, and reliability.

[IkarusJohn]

FWIW, here is a TOP post regarding potential issues with adapters (including a link to the already mentioned lensrentals article).

 

Jeff

 

Thanks, Jeff. Interesting article.

 

There was no slop with the Novoflex adapter I used on the Nex-5n with my Leica lenses, so I'm hoping it will be fine (though point taken).

 

Old lenses in the digital era, and coping with the edges on wide angle lenses? Sure, I get it can be a problem - for everyone, including Leica as we have seen. I tend to just stick a lens on a camera, point it at something interesting, and see if it works. For my money, even though those Zeiss lenses are designed to work with this camera, they won't match the current crop of Leica glass.

 

Will be interesting to tell if that is right - the images using a Summilux 50 seem to suggest that the Leica lenses will be okay ...

[jedi996sps]

What adapter would recommend I order now so that I can use my M-lenses on the A7R once it arrives?

 

Rick

 

If it helps, the two i am looking at, thanks to previous posts here, are the ones supplied by Metabones and also Phigmenttech. Sony also show one on the same page as the lenses and accessories, not sure what that one does precisely, but from what i can gather, the Phigmenttech will;

 

'identify the lens and it's capabilities as well as notifying the camera when focus changes',

[AlanG]

I have M and F mount lenses (the two F mount lenses are AF-S lenses for my D800E, and they have no aperture control on the lens). I'm assuming that there is no adapter which will allow me to use the F mount lenses on the A7r ...

 

I think you mean Nikon G type lenses as AF-S lenses have an aperture control. There are Nikon G to Nex adapters that use a ring to adjust the aperture by pressing directly on the stop down linkage. (I believe that is how they work as I've never seen one.)

 

Anyway, here is your solution....

 

Metabones Nikon G-Mount Lens to Sony NEX Camera MB_NFG-E-BM1 B&H

[Paul J]

Luminous Landscape review is good, makes it sounds like it's a no brainer for M Lenses.

 

Ming Thein's is strange. I guess he's being paid by certain people to write certain things (there have been some pretty bold statements made in his past reviews that I have found not to be true). His article just sounds like sour grapes and misdirection.

 

I don't for one moment buy the notion that you need a tripod to extract resolution in high Megapixel cameras. I hand hold the Blad H and P65+ all the time and the resolution is not hindered at all.

[air]

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Finde gerade keine Angaben zur Naheinstellgrenze der neuen Objektive an der alpha7. Vielleicht jemand von euch?

 

Per Zufall was gefunden...

Tabelle am Ende des Artikels...

Mit dem 35er scheinbar 35cm

 

Sony Alpha 7: Vollformatkamera in kleinem Gehäuse - SPIEGEL ONLINE

[algrove]

Leica has to up their game. They can't sell a camera for $7,000 when the competition is so close on their heels without offering something that is better in every way.

 

I must have missed something. Who is on who's heels? I would say Sony just leapfrogged Leica with FF AF interchangeable lens camera having 24 or 36MP sensors, all in a package about the size of my RX-1. Wow!

[AlanG]

Nobody has mentioned the new feature that allows the camera to lock focus onto a specific eyeball even at an angle to the face. This should be particularly useful to some photographers. I don't know if it can do an eyeball focus confirm in manual focus.

[MarkP]

Having thought and read about this more:

 

My M240 and Monochrom will stay. There is more to photography than just more pixels and I love the whole rangefinder experience with these two cameras and their optical viewfinders.

 

However, I will however definitely replace the M9 with an A7R if the Leica wideangles work on the sensor.

[Ozkar]

If the Leica M was 36MP and had this level of functionality and purposefulness and usability then I would have bought one when it came out and even now I would still pay £6K for the privilege. THAT is where they screwed up.

 

Where they need to pull their finger out of their arse is that they have two incredibly expensive systems in The M and the S which really aren't offering enough. THis new Sony is probably not so far off the d800 which is not far off the S. WHY would you buy an S or an M? Apart for some feel good factor? Apart from a very select few who only want to use rangefinder focussing?

 

They need to up their game, perhaps it's already too late. I'm placing an order for this camera for sure and if it works out then I will probably buy a couple more at that price. A body for each lens, in that small size, it's almost like having a zoom again.

 

The A7R costs USD2,299 (with integrated grip and EVF). An equivalent M240 will set you back USD7,800, more than 3 times the price of the A7R.

 

Why is the M240 so expensive? Like the M9, it is probably 90% built in Portugal. The sensor is built in Belgium. I appreciate that labour costs in Germany are high. But they simply just fit the sensor and apply the vinyl wrap.

[IkarusJohn]

I think you mean Nikon G type lenses as AF-S lenses have an aperture control. There are Nikon G to Nex adapters that use a ring to adjust the aperture by pressing directly on the stop down linkage. (I believe that is how they work as I've never seen one.)

 

Anyway, here is your solution....

 

Metabones Nikon G-Mount Lens to Sony NEX Camera MB_NFG-E-BM1 B&H

 

Thanks Alan,

 

What I meant was the AF-S Micro Nikkor 60mm f/2.8G ED and the AF-S Nikkor 80-400mm f/4.5-5.6G ED VR, neither of which has aperture control on the lens. If there's an adapter which will allow both auto-focus and aperture control from an E-mount camera, that would be great (as unlikely as it sounds).

 

The Novoflex adapter is great, but it is a dumb adapter - you set the camera to no lens, or manual lens (it's an odd menu setting), and you then control aperture and focusing from the lens, ISO and shutter speed from the camera. That's fine, but it would also be great to record the lens in the EXIF data, and if it also triggers the peak focussing, so much the better.

 

I wasn't aware that such adapters existed.

 

Cheers

John

[Ozkar]

Luminous Landscape review is good, makes it sounds like it's a no brainer for M Lenses.

 

Ming Thein's is strange. I guess he's being paid by certain people to write certain things (there have been some pretty bold statements made in his past reviews that I have found not to be true). His article just sounds like sour grapes and misdirection.

 

I don't for one moment buy the notion that you need a tripod to extract resolution in high Megapixel cameras. I hand hold the Blad H and P65+ all the time and the resolution is not hindered at all.

 

I agree. A classic case of sour grapes. Ming is not able to get his hand on these new cameras and therefore just writes a Ken Rockwell style assessment of a camera he has neither touched nor seen.

[Ozkar]

Nobody has mentioned the new feature that allows the camera to lock focus onto a specific eyeball even at an angle to the face. This should be particularly useful to some photographers. I don't know if it can do an eyeball focus confirm in manual focus.

 

This slipped under the radar, with me, but is definitely of interest.

 

I've been shooting continuously with an M RF camera since the 90's. The lenses of the day were not state of the art and, on film, the RF concept worked just fine. Current Leica lenses are best-in-class. They are also very expensive. I have committed a lot of money to Leica glass and want to shoot them at their maximum potential.

 

My number one gripe with every M I have owned is the inability to focus wide-open with any level of accuracy on a subject that is not centred. Shooting a vertical portrait, for example, with a 50 LUX ASPH at wide apertures is a very hit and miss affair. Whenever you focus with a centre-point and recompose you shift the point of focus. The 50 LUX ASPH, my favourite lens, also suffers from field curvature which further exacerbates this issue.

[k-hawinkler]

Thank you, Karl-Heinz for this.

 

I have M and F mount lenses (the two F mount lenses are AF-S lenses for my D800E, and they have no aperture control on the lens). I'm assuming that there is no adapter which will allow me to use the F mount lenses on the A7r ...

 

Sony NEX System : Nikon G to E-mount/NEX (Black Matt)

 

Novoflex also has one that works with G lenses. I have that one.

 

For the M mount lenses, I have the Novoflex adapter.

 

The Novoflex adapter is a great choice. Very precisely made.

 

My favorite adapter for APS-C sensors is: https://www.phigmenttech.ca/lmnex/index.php?page=product

I need to check whether any of my M lenses vignettes with this adapter on the A7r.

 

I know you spend a lot of time with adapters, and making things fit various cameras. Once you get your hands on an A7, it would be great for the rest of us if you would share your recommendations on adapters, and how to make which lenses fit the camera. The idea of using M lenses for close up work is very appealing, I'd have to say;

 

According to Sony USA my A7r should ship December 1, 2013.

 

For closeup work with M lenses you would want this one: Hawk's Factory Leica M L M to Sony NEX E Mount Macro Tube Helicoid V2 5 | eBay

 

These adapters are offered on ebay for somewhat different prices.

 

and if I could use my AF-S 80-400 Nikkor zoom lens on the A7, I'd be stoked!

 

Cheers

John

 

Sony NEX System : Nikon G to E-mount/NEX (Black Matt)

 

With G lenses I start either wide open or closed down.

Switch on camera, focus, watch exposure time changing, count the f-stops in factors of 2 as the aperture ring on the adapter is turned.

Stop at the desired f-number. Done. Works for me.

 

 

Good luck!

[Thomas Chen]

 

That being said, I'd prefer to give up the lens coding and use a Hawk's helicoid adapter, which allows the M lenses to have a much shorter minimum focusing distance.

 

Douglas,

 

Are you satisfied with the Hawk Factory's adapter? I've bought one per your recommendation.

 

Last week I talked via phone with the owner of Hawk Factory located at another city nearby. He seems to be a user of Leica R and M system as he knows all the details about Leica lenses.

 

He told me that he is going to develop a Leica R to E mount adapter with a detachable tripod seat on it.

 

Best Regards,

 

 

Thomas Chen

[AlanG]

Thanks Alan,

 

What I meant was the AF-S Micro Nikkor 60mm f/2.8G ED and the AF-S Nikkor 80-400mm f/4.5-5.6G ED VR, neither of which has aperture control on the lens. If there's an adapter which will allow both auto-focus and aperture control from an E-mount camera, that would be great (as unlikely as it sounds).

 

The Novoflex adapter is great, but it is a dumb adapter - you set the camera to no lens, or manual lens (it's an odd menu setting), and you then control aperture and focusing from the lens, ISO and shutter speed from the camera. That's fine, but it would also be great to record the lens in the EXIF data, and if it also triggers the peak focussing, so much the better.

 

I wasn't aware that such adapters existed.

 

Cheers

John

 

You are not going to get that level of integration between Nikon lenses and the A7 with any current adapter that I am aware of. Just a manual stop down aperture control and manual focus. No IS, no AF no communication between the two.

 

The Metabones Canon EOS to Nex adapter is much more evolved and does what you want. Perhaps someone can make a similar Nikon/Nex adapter but maybe there has been something stopping that. I'd like to write a special Nikon lens Play Memory app that would show two shoes in the viewfinder telling you to walk forward or backwards for accurate focus.

[k-hawinkler]

Karl - Congratulations. This camera should be perfect for you. Depending on how easily my Leica M-lenses focus on this camera and, of course, absent any significant edge problems, this could be my camera as well.

 

Unlike you, I have no adapter in the drawer to use once I receive this camera. What adapter would recommend I order now so that I can use my M-lenses on the A7R once it arrives?

 

Rick

 

 

Thanks Rick.

 

For M and R lenses I recommend the ones made by Novoflex.

 

For M lenses I also use https://www.phigmenttech.ca/lmnex/index.php?page=product

This adapter switches on automatically magnification and peaking when the M lens is being focused.

I use the highest sensitivity detection level. For WA lenses sensitivity appears higher than for tele lenses.

Very nice as it mimics the camera's behavior for native lenses being manually focused!

 

Good luck.

[NightSun]

Ming Thein's is strange. I guess he's being paid by certain people to write certain things (there have been some pretty bold statements made in his past reviews that I have found not to be true). His article just sounds like sour grapes and misdirection.

 

I don't for one moment buy the notion that you need a tripod to extract resolution in high Megapixel cameras. I hand hold the Blad H and P65+ all the time and the resolution is not hindered at all.

 

Me too I found quite strange this argument of him. If one thinks about this for a while, 36 Mpixels on FF is exactly the same pixel density as 16 Mpixels on APS-C (since FF has 2.25x the area of APS-C). That is, during exposure the same amount of physical movement (due to shaking) of a 36 Mpixel FF camera and a 16 Mpixel APS-C camera produces the same amount of shift measured in pixel units at the image plane. And I had not heard anybody complaining about APS-C cameras not being able to extract enough details at such pixel density without a tripod. So it's quite a futile argument, and for me it sounds too as sour grapes.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[k-hawinkler]

You are not going to get that level of integration between Nikon lenses and the A7 with any current adapter that I am aware of. Just a manual stop down aperture control and manual focus. No IS, no AF no communication between the two.

 

The Metabones Canon EOS to Nex adapter is much more evolved and does what you want. Perhaps someone can make a similar Nikon/Nex adapter but maybe there has been something stopping that.

 

 

AFAIK that can't be done as some Nikon lenses are not fully electronically linked to the camera.

However Canon lenses are. Well, that's my understanding anyway. I hope I am wrong!