Rick Posted December 2, 2013 Share #3181 Posted December 2, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Says who? Here is a 2 minute rough job. I spend much longer on jobs and exhibition prints. Paul, I understand and I can do that too as can most everyone on an example like that. I just need to know which game we are playing so, I can give the right answer. If, it is the correct color game then, we need a thicker IR cover over the sensor and that means we need a Sony! If, it is less smearing in the corners the, we need a thinner filter and that means a Leica! If, you want high detail then, we need the Sony A7R. If, while we are looking at the detail in the Noctilux and happen to notice LCA, then we need a different lens, maybe a Leica 50 APO! You see, I know the right answers, I just can't keep up with what game different people are playing. Final answer... Sony no wait... Leica... what was the question again? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 2, 2013 Posted December 2, 2013 Hi Rick, Take a look here The Sony A7 thread [Merged]. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Paul J Posted December 2, 2013 Share #3182 Posted December 2, 2013 Lol, I hear ya. Though there is no playing of games here - All I was saying is that it seems to work well with the Noctilux. Those pictures are revealing details I've not seen in my M9 or any M sample before and it makes me excited to try it because I use the Noctilux a hell of a lot. 36MP Noctilux is exciting to me. Ya know? That is all. 2 cents, IMO, ymmv, etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted December 2, 2013 Share #3183 Posted December 2, 2013 I'm going to delete these CA photoshop examples above because I don't have permission to post them and I can't be bothered emailing them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted December 2, 2013 Share #3184 Posted December 2, 2013 I'm going to delete these CA photoshop examples above because I don't have permission to post them and I can't be bothered emailing them. It is fine if you feel this way but educational and commentary usage like that is considered "Fair Use." I think all of these A7 examples illustrate what Leica had to deal with in balancing IR filtering with lens detail along with software correction. I give Leica a lot of credit for what they have accomplished but I would suspect that future lenses from them will not be stressing the cover glass thickness so much... Unless other sensor design improvements make these steeper angle lenses work better. And if that's the case, then everybody will be trying to make smaller lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpwhite Posted December 2, 2013 Share #3185 Posted December 2, 2013 There is truck loads more detail and it makes for 24x16 native prints, up from 11x17 from the M9. That's a LOT. What's not to love? Give me the resolution baby! As for the Lateral CA, just get rid of it. It's digital! Paul, where are you getting your 24 x 16 paper? Following Jaap's valuable suggestion for printing MM files on Canson Bayrta Photographique, I have started using it for everything.... But I stick with the R3000 borderless because I do not see 1:1.5 paper in sizes larger then 13x 19. What have I missed? Thx, Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted December 2, 2013 Share #3186 Posted December 2, 2013 Ok, but doesn't the 7R claim to have no AA filter? What would be the point? To just get a thinner IR filter? And on your 7 you would just get a thinner IR filter? The 7R has a neutralized AA filter, same as the D800E. The sensor cover is as thick as the 7, so the smearing level is exactly the same on the 7 and 7R. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted December 2, 2013 Share #3187 Posted December 2, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Edward (I presume that's your first name, but please correct me if you would like to be addressed differently. Thanks) Good luck with your adventure. Certainly a very interesting experiment. If forbid the experiment should fail, could they put the old piece of glass back in? Thanks. Hi Karl-Heinz, Yep, Edward is my name. This is a good question, I will ask them today. I don't expect it to be a problem though. Unfortunately, I went today to pick up my A7 and have the sensor of my M9 cleaned, and it turned out the sensor is delaminating and the M9 is being sent to Germany now. I am not sure if I should go ahead with the sensor surgery as I will be without a camera, unless I buy another A7 body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
uhoh7 Posted December 2, 2013 Share #3188 Posted December 2, 2013 CV 35/1.2 @ f/1.2 on a7r DSC00955 by unoh7, on Flickr I'm sure everyone is aware this is the fastest 35mm lens ever made for 135 negative. Do some peeping and you may be surprised at the sharpness wide open. you can find more samples in the same set. I see it begins to seep in here that the Sony performance is unmatched by Leica with some lenses, while inferior to Leica with others: though it should be said the A7r has superior central IQ nearly with all M lenses. Sony rendering is beautiful. The weakness is obviously poor edge performance 28 and wider with a wide aperture. What mitigates this to some degree is that the Sony has been designed to mitigate diffraction, and is very good stopped down: superior to any M I believe, in this respect. Of course the Sony is not a rangefinder. I can live with that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted December 2, 2013 Share #3189 Posted December 2, 2013 As for the Lateral CA, just get rid of it. It's digital! Guys, it is actually Longitudinal CA. Unlike Lateral CA, it is not trivial to remove, as the original 3D information required to "compute it out" has been obviously lost. However, Lightroom 5 seems to do nice job. APO Noctilux not yet available Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted December 2, 2013 Share #3190 Posted December 2, 2013 This might be interesting to some of you guys. I have been talking to Dan at maxmax.com and they will be able to remove the thick cover glass of the 7/7R and replace it with a non AA thinner one, which practically will make the camera work perfectly with RF lenses. Very interesting. That may solve the smearing problem. We would still need to correct color vignetting, though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted December 2, 2013 Share #3191 Posted December 2, 2013 Very interesting. That may solve the smearing problem. We would still need to correct color vignetting, though. That is correct. But if you can live with 24 mp (AA less) the A7 has been proven to have less color vignetting than the M240. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
naturephoto1 Posted December 2, 2013 Share #3192 Posted December 2, 2013 The 7R has a neutralized AA filter, same as the D800E. The sensor cover is as thick as the 7, so the smearing level is exactly the same on the 7 and 7R. Hi Edward, At this point, how do we know that the AA filter in the A7r is neutralized just like in the D800E and not absent as Sony has indicated? Do we have any confirmation of this and if so, what is your source? I know we had a discussion about this on FM, but as far as I can recall, you indicated that you were told this by your camera store? Sorry to hear about the delamination of the M9 sensor and the camera having to go back to Germany. Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted December 2, 2013 Share #3193 Posted December 2, 2013 Shouldn't the maxmax.com guys be able to figure that out if anybody outside Sony can? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted December 2, 2013 Share #3194 Posted December 2, 2013 Hi Edward, At this point, how do we know that the AA filter in the A7r is neutralized just like in the D800E and not absent as Sony has indicated? Do we have any confirmation of this and if so, what is your source? I know we had a discussion about this on FM, but as far as I can recall, you indicated that you were told this by your camera store? Sorry to hear about the delamination of the M9 sensor and the camera having to go back to Germany. Rich Thank you Richard. Apart for the Sony clerk information, I think it is very clear from the identical smearing on the A7/7R that they both have the same thickness of the cover glass, as well as the necessity to keep the optical characteristics of the sensor topping similar so that the lenses specifically designed for them work optimally. A thinner cover on the A7R would change the field curvature characteristics of the FE lenses causing corner smearing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted December 2, 2013 Share #3195 Posted December 2, 2013 Shouldn't the maxmax.com guys be able to figure that out if anybody outside Sony can? They said they didn't handle any A7/R yet but have extensive experience with Nex bodies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcg Posted December 2, 2013 Share #3196 Posted December 2, 2013 Anyone noticed this - (SR4) First specs about the new Sony 54 Megapixel Full Frame sensor! | sonyalpharumors ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted December 2, 2013 Share #3197 Posted December 2, 2013 Guys, it is actually Longitudinal CA.Unlike Lateral CA, it is not trivial to remove, as the original 3D information required to "compute it out" has been obviously lost. However, Lightroom 5 seems to do nice job. APO Noctilux not yet available Given the opposing purple AND green lines in the samples it makes it lateral. I've never found a RAW converter that deals with it in a way that works or is is acceptable. You need to get it into Photoshop and I would say it is reasonably trivial. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted December 2, 2013 Share #3198 Posted December 2, 2013 Anyone noticed this - (SR4) First specs about the new Sony 54 Megapixel Full Frame sensor! | sonyalpharumors ? Hmm. I think I'll just sit back and wait a bit longer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted December 2, 2013 Share #3199 Posted December 2, 2013 My guess is that Sony has intentionally crippled third party lenses by using a thicker filter. Why would they not? I had suspected they would do something like this from the beginning to make you buy their lenses designed with the entire sensor module in mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted December 2, 2013 Share #3200 Posted December 2, 2013 Anyone noticed this - (SR4) First specs about the new Sony 54 Megapixel Full Frame sensor! | sonyalpharumors ? Incredible. A mount too. I have a feeling that we're entering a new phase of rapid expansion as other brands clamber to join the race, or at least to keep in the race. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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