Jaybob Posted November 27, 2013 Share #3001 Posted November 27, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well, this is the reason that I use Leica: The high quality, small size/low weight package is actually what I can bring with me on daily to weekly+ hiking and skiing adventures. Sure, A7® with Zeiss lenses can also be used (and could be even smaller/lighter than MM/M9/M240+a few M-lenses), but I stick to Leica due to the beautiful rendering of lots of M-lenses between 21 and 90 mm. M9+21SEM (stich of 4 images), f5.6, 1/250s, handheld in -20 C (or thereabout). A cropped central portion of a "sweep panorama" (in the vertical mode) using any 50mm Leitz lens (a collapsible Elmar perhaps) on an adapted Sony A7 or an adapted (and 450 dollar) NEX 3 may have been easier to accomplish. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 27, 2013 Posted November 27, 2013 Hi Jaybob, Take a look here The Sony A7 thread [Merged]. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
helged Posted November 27, 2013 Share #3002 Posted November 27, 2013 It's interesting that the 21 SEM is so 'bad' in this case. What is it like on the M/M9 with lens corrections turned off? See this post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted November 27, 2013 Share #3003 Posted November 27, 2013 Talking about innovation and Sony, there's this to consider. I think it's compatible with M lenses: BBC News - Sony files patent for 'SmartWig' No me tomes el pello! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
helged Posted November 27, 2013 Share #3004 Posted November 27, 2013 ...just illustrating my continuing confusion with this character discussion. Fine points. 21SEM on M9/MM/M240 is a favorite of mine particularly because of a very pleasant colour rendering (for my eyes; not that visible from a b&w photo , but see below), lots of microcontrast and fine sharpness also at the edges. It generates files that can be tweaked quite a bit before getting the unforgivable, digital plastic appearance. Most of these points are - for sure - subjective. But after the first shots with M9+21SEM, I saw details and balance that I only have seen on medium format (film). Other camera+lens combinations could likely give you the same feeling (and possibilities), but my experience is limited to Mamyia 7, Leica-M and some older Canon-stuff. M9+21SEM, f5.6, 1/250s, handheld, 30 Dec 2011. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/214267-the-sony-a7-thread-merged/?do=findComment&comment=2475110'>More sharing options...
AlanG Posted November 27, 2013 Share #3005 Posted November 27, 2013 A cropped central portion of a "sweep panorama" (in the vertical mode) using any 50mm Leitz lens (a collapsible Elmar perhaps) on an adapted Sony A7 or an adapted (and 450 dollar) NEX 3 may have been easier to accomplish. I ski a lot. I used to carry older folding film cameras as they fit flat in my pocket in case I foll on them...a 6x6 Zeiss Ikonta B or a Retina IIIc. With digital, I carry a small point and shoot as I find even a Nex 6 with collapsible 16-50 too big for me and my pockets. I don't like to carry a back pack or fanny pack while skiing. With the p&s I often shoot stitched panoramic images. I even made a small hand holdable VR panhead for this. A GoPro is on the helmet of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted November 27, 2013 Share #3006 Posted November 27, 2013 ...I have never seen anyone ski with a Leica. I'm sure it's been done, but I've skied thousands of days and never seen it.... . ... We never met, clearly...... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! (M8) Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! (M8) ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/214267-the-sony-a7-thread-merged/?do=findComment&comment=2475117'>More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted November 27, 2013 Share #3007 Posted November 27, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) and this is the previous 21/3.4 image put through LR flat field convertor using a calibration image taken with an expodisk....... looks fine ...... but the process of getting there is a pain as everything needs converting to DNG from ARW...... nb. there is slight overall magenta tinge on this image when I view it in my browser which is not there in the LR DNG original.... and compression seems to dull the image as well .... below is the calibration image for the 21/3.4 .... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/214267-the-sony-a7-thread-merged/?do=findComment&comment=2475126'>More sharing options...
dwbell Posted November 27, 2013 Share #3008 Posted November 27, 2013 Fine points. 21SEM on M9/MM/M240 is a favorite of mine particularly because of a very pleasant colour rendering (for my eyes; not that visible from a b&w photo , but see below), lots of microcontrast and fine sharpness also at the edges. It generates files that can be tweaked quite a bit before getting the unforgivable, digital plastic appearance. Most of these points are - for sure - subjective. But after the first shots with M9+21SEM, I saw details and balance that I only have seen on medium format (film). Other camera+lens combinations could likely give you the same feeling (and possibilities), but my experience is limited to Mamyia 7, Leica-M and some older Canon-stuff. M9+21SEM, f5.6, 1/250s, handheld, 30 Dec 2011. Thanks for taking my observations how they were intended. Much appreciated. To continue. "It" renders? On an M8, an M9, an M240, TriX etc? If "it" does then "it" will on an A7R, so it's purely lens, or combination of lens and camera? And if the later does the character change with each successive camera, or does it ONLY remain on Leica bodies? I can get on board with excellent micro-contrast, and sharpness though-out the image, even in the edges (despite the fact you cropped at least one whole side of the lovely shot you subsequently posted - suggesting edge performance could have been sacrificed entirely). I feel the "dreaded plastic" (which I also fear like the reaper himself!) is more connected with total DR of the sensor, in camera processing of the raw file and resolution of the sensor. In general I do hear you. I have combinations which I love, which just seem to work. But I don't accept that all Leica lenses have a "rendering" or "character" that separates them from the other lens manufacturers. So when you say "this is the reason I use LEICA" it tweaks my critical thinking module and upsets my "it's all on faith" balance. WHICH Leica? ONLY Leica? Disappears on any other body? Really? You know? I'll be right behind you on "I'm in love with the images I can make with the M9 and 21 Elmar" or whatever. It might seem like semantics, but it kind of perpetuates what I see as the myth that Leica is what causes this, and not a combination of photographer (90%) and tool (10% and brand independent) which is how I would prefer it conveyed if I ruled the world. Which of course I don't - so I'm bang out of luck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted November 27, 2013 Share #3009 Posted November 27, 2013 Camera preference at this level of performance is like buying mid to upper range cars.... .... almost all will do everything you could ever realistically expect .... and more.... then it's all down to habit, styling and a selection of luxury extras, often of dubious use but nice to have if you can afford it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptZoom Posted November 27, 2013 Share #3010 Posted November 27, 2013 I think lens + sensor "character" applies to image files untouched in PP and typically closer to max/widest aperture of the lens (bokeh quality). That being said, I don't recall the last time I took a photo that I didn't post process*. Unfortunately for me, my vision and the imaging algorithms of the M9 are not aligned. ---- *Mobile phone photos- I rarely tweak photos taken with my mobile phone. Usually I take them via an app that randomly applies some filters as the shot is taken. I never know what the end result will be, though the pool of filters the app selects from is populated with my selections. The mobile phone camera is used like toy camera or as an aid for location scouting (in which case the images aren't tweaked at all). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted November 27, 2013 Share #3011 Posted November 27, 2013 I think lens + sensor "character" applies to image files untouched in PP and typically closer to max/widest aperture of the lens (bokeh quality). That being said, I don't recall the last time I took a photo that I didn't post process. Unfortunately for me, my vision and the imaging algorithms of the M9 are not aligned. Yes. I can see "swirly, circular" bokeh with some of the 50's wide open as being "character". But I can also see that applying to cheap fish eye lenses, even Holgas etc in general and feel it's a bit of a one trick- multi brand pony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted November 27, 2013 Share #3012 Posted November 27, 2013 DXO has adjustments for "fill lighting" with methods to fine tune the character of that fill lighting including local contrast, overall contrast, shadow radius, and lots more. Additionally the overall image can be adjusted similarly including micro-contrast and pretty much anything having to do with the tone curve. All of these things can subtly or drastically change the look of the image much more than the characteristic differences between any lenses I own. You just have to move some sliders to see this. And we are not even talking about color adjustments. Other conversion software has similar tone controls if not offering all of those types of adjustments. I have to think that any in camera settings or fixed post processing settings just lock in these characteristics in a particular way that has little to do with the camera hardware or lens at all. Yes you may see some difference between lenses when working this way. Is one always better and can the other be adjusted to look more or less the same? Consider that making prints or displaying on a screen reduces the dynamic range of some scenes so much that the way you compress the tones is a very large factor compared to anything else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted November 27, 2013 Share #3013 Posted November 27, 2013 as everything needs converting to DNG from ARW...... That'll be part of camera raw in the next release so will then be like every other camera on import from card. PS - Was it your dad who was the photo journalist looking for a Leica? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirekti Posted November 27, 2013 Share #3014 Posted November 27, 2013 and this is the previous 21/3.4 image put through LR flat field convertor using a calibration image taken with an expodisk....... How do you use expodisk? Do you shoot a AWB photo with it in front of the lens, and than once you come home use an AWB checker on that first photo, and apply it to all other photos in the same light? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted November 27, 2013 Share #3015 Posted November 27, 2013 That'll be part of camera raw in the next release so will then be like every other camera on import from card. PS - Was it your dad who was the photo journalist looking for a Leica? Ps...... No ..... That bit in the thread many moons ago was a joke... Latest LR imports ARW fine ( the latest beta candidate ) although it is a bit slow in rendering The problem is that the Flat Field Convertor only works with DNG's ...... So you have to convert and re-import. The expo disk is intended for custom WB setting ..... But it provides a flat 18% grey image (same as taking a photo of a white wall) so I used it for the calibration images. I have one of the larger ones as I have a noctilux ..... Just hold it over lens.... Point at light source and shoot ...... Pocketable and much handier than grey cards etc.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybob Posted November 27, 2013 Share #3016 Posted November 27, 2013 The expo disk is intended for custom WB setting ..... But it provides a flat 18% grey image (same as taking a photo of a white wall) so I used it for the calibration images. I have one of the larger ones as I have a noctilux ..... Just hold it over lens.... Point at light source and shoot ...... Pocketable and much handier than grey cards etc.... With the Sony, you can "spot meter" the center of the frame at a white area, grey area, or black area for a white balance that is amazingly accurate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModernMan Posted November 27, 2013 Share #3017 Posted November 27, 2013 When I tried to calibrate the Voigt adapter from the lens mount side, lenses could not be mounted anymore. Himming the back side of the adapter pushes the whole lens mount forward. Inside the Voigt there were some extra washers, probably left there for further shimming. Too bad I did not expect loose washers inside, so they fell off when I opened the adater an could only recover three. I understand your suggestion not to use tape and thank you for that. For me it is a nightmare to procure small washers of different height, so I settled with 1 layer of gaffer and 1 of standard clear tape (thinnest). Adding a second clear tape layer moved infinity beyond the tab stop, so I backtracked to 1 gaffer + 1clear. I think I will try a Metabonesor a Hawk. Will be a heads or tails decision. Best regards, Mauro Very interesting regarding the voigt adapter. Sounds like they are designed to be shimmed on the rear flange. The Novoflex adapters I've worked on can be shimmed on the front flange. In my limited eperience, they seem to exhibit the "past infinity" issue you mention, which I suspect is by design since the alternative (can't focus to infinity) is unacceptable. FYI -- Amazon sells assortment packs of brass shim stock, but it needs to be cut to appropriate shape for the job -- scissors will do. I've had good experience with Amazon's international export department. Will be interested to hear your experience on this with metabones (that name does puzzle me). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModernMan Posted November 27, 2013 Share #3018 Posted November 27, 2013 It's interesting that the 21 SEM is so 'bad' in this case. What is it like on the M/M9 with lens corrections turned off? Excellent question. It would be interesting to see the uncorrected raw images side by side. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jschone Posted November 27, 2013 Share #3019 Posted November 27, 2013 1955 - Italy Foto: Piergiorgio Branzi Camera: Leica M3 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/214267-the-sony-a7-thread-merged/?do=findComment&comment=2475271'>More sharing options...
mirekti Posted November 27, 2013 Share #3020 Posted November 27, 2013 ...and what he did to the Noctilux Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.