helged Posted July 1, 2013 Share #1 Posted July 1, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) As mentioned in another thread, I picked up a M240 last week. After playing with the camera in the weekend, in rain, snow and sun, I am quite pleased with it. The optical viewfinder is excellent, live view can be very useful (although somewhat slow, at least based on my limited experience with it), the shutter is really 'smooth' and almost without sound, the image quality/dynamic range seems improved compared to M9, and the white balance is fine. Yes, fine! One (solvable) problem that is of relevance for those using wide angle lenses on M240, is the classical red/green coloring/italian flag 'syndrome'. For the excellent Leica 21mm Super-Elmar-M f/ 3.4 ASPH, the coloring is evident along the left-right edges, leading to some mis-colouring of e.g. clouds and snow. A reference photo of a white wall is shown below, illustrating the behavior (f8, about 5 m focus distance, no processing except reduced size, M240 with latest firmware 1.1.0.2). To get rid of the miscoloring, Cornerfix works like a charm. Options in Capture One and Lightroom should work equally well. But a post-processing fix is need in order to get even coloring. Later firmware could improve on this, but that remains to be seen. For completeness, I add one photo taken with M240 and Super-Elmar 21 including clouds and snow (f8, 1/500 s, handheld, with Cornerfix to remove the red edge problem). No false edge coloring here. Of course, I can not exclude the possibility that my M240-SE21 combo is off in some way or another. Experience from other users is needed to settle on this. So far, so good! Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/207969-m240-and-some-wideangles/?do=findComment&comment=2362993'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 Hi helged, Take a look here M240 and some wideangles. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
A Sfeir Posted July 1, 2013 Share #2 Posted July 1, 2013 [ATTACH]385078[/ATTACH]I don't know if this can be fixed in the future in a new firmware. The Summilux 21 mm works well because it has a retro-focus design like all SLR lenses. I use the CV 15 mm on the M, it has a much more pronounced color cast, and I find the work around provided by the flat field plug in in Lightroom very convenient: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/207969-m240-and-some-wideangles/?do=findComment&comment=2363204'>More sharing options...
01af Posted July 1, 2013 Share #3 Posted July 1, 2013 The Summilux-M 21 mm Asph works well because it has a retro-focus design like all SLR lenses. With the exception of the Tri-Elmar 16-18-21 mm Asph, no current Leica M lens has a retro-focus design. As a matter of fact, the back-focus distances of the Super-Elmar-M 21 mm Asph and the Summilux-M 21 mm Asph are fairly similar—15.4 mm for the former and 17.8 mm for the latter (and the latter's rear element's rear surface is concave so this alone makes up for 2.5 mm of that distance) . So yes, for both the back-focus distances are a little longer than for a traditional symmetric wide-angle lens of the same focal length, but no, for both it's still not long enough to make them actually retro-focus. The Voigtländer Super-Wide Heliar 15 mm 1:4.5 has a back-focus distance of approximately 13.5 mm—that's 91 % of the nominal focal length. So it's no retro-focus either, yet closer to being retro-focus than the Summilux-M 21 mm Asph which has a relatively shorter back-focus distance of only 82 % of the focal length. But then, it's not the back-focus distance that causes red edges on a digital sensor but the size and position of the exit pupil. For a 15 mm M lens, that's smaller and closer to the image plane than for 21 mm M lenses. And the fact that the camera has no profile for the 15/4.5 doesn't help either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
helged Posted July 1, 2013 Author Share #4 Posted July 1, 2013 Thanks for the explanation, 01af! To illustrate how things may look like with the M240, four wide angle lenses are presented in the following posts. For each lens, three images are shown. First a photo of a white wall, then an uncorrected photo (no processing except reduced size) and finally a Cornerfix'ed version of the latter based on the white wall photo. M240 seems to produce a more even (symmetric) and somewhat reduced de-coloring compared to M9, at least for the bodies I have access to. First out is Leica-M SE21, f8, focal distance 5 m, 1/125 s, on tripod (M240 firmware is 1.102). Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/207969-m240-and-some-wideangles/?do=findComment&comment=2363324'>More sharing options...
helged Posted July 1, 2013 Author Share #5 Posted July 1, 2013 Then we move on to Carl Zeiss Biogon 21/2.8, coded as 11135/11897 Elmarit-M 21 asph. Photo at f8, focal distance 5 m, 1/125 s, on tripod (M240 firmware is 1.102) [ignore the black corner on the white wall photo...]. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/207969-m240-and-some-wideangles/?do=findComment&comment=2363326'>More sharing options...
helged Posted July 1, 2013 Author Share #6 Posted July 1, 2013 ...and we continue with Carl Zeiss Biogon 25/2.8, coded as 11878/11898 Elmarit-M 24mm asph. Photo at f8, focal distance 5 m, 1/125 s, on tripod (M240 firmware is 1.102). Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/207969-m240-and-some-wideangles/?do=findComment&comment=2363329'>More sharing options...
helged Posted July 1, 2013 Author Share #7 Posted July 1, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) And finally Voigtlander Super Wide-Heliar 15f4.5, coded as 11134 21mm f /2.8 Elmarit. Photo at f8, focal distance 3 m, 1/90 s, on tripod (M240 firmware is 1.102). I find this lens tricky in color on M9 (works fine in b&w, though...), but it works quite well on M240, at least on the M240 I happen to have. Sorry for the many postings - but hopefully some of the forum members find it useful! [And perhaps the moderator can change the title to "M240 and (some) wide angle lenses", or something similar] Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/207969-m240-and-some-wideangles/?do=findComment&comment=2363336'>More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted July 1, 2013 Share #8 Posted July 1, 2013 The next generation of FW for the 240 seems very overdue. When you think how frequently the FW for the M8 and M9 was updated in the first few months of their life, it seems very slow. Yes I can correct in C1 but where I have a mixed bunch of photos taken with various lenses, this is a pain. The edges with the CV15 are pretty extreme, to the extent, I am not really using it at present. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Clennan Posted July 3, 2013 Share #9 Posted July 3, 2013 Thanks for the sample images. I have used my 21SEM extensively on the M240 and have not had the color shift you have shown. In fact, I have not had to correct a single image. On the other hand, the CV15 is just brutal and takes a fair bit of post to make right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
helged Posted July 3, 2013 Author Share #10 Posted July 3, 2013 I have used my 21SEM extensively on the M240 and have not had the color shift you have shown. Interesting! Do you use firmware 1.102? Any other owners of M240+SEM21 to chime in on their experiences with red edge/corner coloring with this combo? (see image samples in post #4 above) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted July 3, 2013 Share #11 Posted July 3, 2013 Interesting! Do you use firmware 1.102? Any other owners of M240+SEM21 to chime in on their experiences with red edge/corner coloring with this combo? (see image samples in post #4 above) I think everybody will be on FW 1.1.0.2 now. It would only have been the very early cameras like my original one, delivered March 3, which would have been on early FW. As soon as I registered it, a reminder to update to 1.1.0.2 arrived from Leica (I had already done it). These early cameras will have all been back to the factory for the lug repair by now, where if it has not already been done, they flash the new software in. My replacement camera after the original was damaged by the lug repair, which arrived mid June, came with 1.1.0.2 pre installed. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Sfeir Posted July 3, 2013 Share #12 Posted July 3, 2013 Thanks for the sample images. I have used my 21SEM extensively on the M240 and have not had the color shift you have shown. In fact, I have not had to correct a single image. On the other hand, the CV15 is just brutal and takes a fair bit of post to make right. Have you tried the flat field plug in in Lightroom? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Cambern Posted July 3, 2013 Share #13 Posted July 3, 2013 I hope you won't find this question insulting but here's a crazy thought - since you were shooting all the other wides with a manual setting for lens detection, is it possible you didn't return the lens detection to "Auto" when you shot with the 21 Super Elmar? Not sure if that would even create the problem you are seeing but the thought occurred to me that perhaps the camera didn't know it was shooting with the 21 SE. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
helged Posted July 4, 2013 Author Share #14 Posted July 4, 2013 I hope you won't find this question insulting but here's a crazy thought - since you were shooting all the other wides with a manual setting for lens detection, is it possible you didn't return the lens detection to "Auto" when you shot with the 21 Super Elmar? Not sure if that would even create the problem you are seeing but the thought occurred to me that perhaps the camera didn't know it was shooting with the 21 SE. Not insulting at all! All of the lenses except CV15 are 6 bit coded, so the camera was set to auto during the test with one exception: CV15 was manually set to 11134 21mm f /2.8 Elmarit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted July 5, 2013 Share #15 Posted July 5, 2013 FWIW, I find the 15mm R lens has no color shift on the M even without the R-M Adapter from Leica. I use the Novoflex adapter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted July 5, 2013 Share #16 Posted July 5, 2013 FWIW, I find the 15mm R lens has no color shift on the M even without the R-M Adapter from Leica. I use the Novoflex adapter. These retrofocus lenses are just fine. I have been using a Zenitar fish-eye on a ELPhoto adapter with no problems as well. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted July 5, 2013 Share #17 Posted July 5, 2013 These retrofocus lenses are just fine. I have been using a Zenitar fish-eye on a ELPhoto adapter with no problems as well. Wilson Yes... can say the same for Distagon 18 for Contarex on M (not yet M240... though...) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
satureyes Posted July 7, 2013 Share #18 Posted July 7, 2013 Getting back on topic.. I just got my M and am pretty disappointed in the performance of the 21SE. It is a gem of a lens but I'm getting magenta along the right edge of the shot. Not massive but enough to be irritating. I also have the 12mm Vogtlander 5.6 and it was a stellar performer on the M9. It did vignette- but didn't purple fringe. On the M240 it's unusable. Yeah I know about corner fix. I use Aperture as my editor so Lightroom plugins are not really an option. Was thinking about C1 but it's added workflow. Firmware can address this I assume? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted July 7, 2013 Share #19 Posted July 7, 2013 I also have the 12mm Vogtlander 5.6 and it was a stellar performer on the M9. It did vignette- but didn't purple fringe. On the M240 it's unusable. I have Voigtlander 12/5.6 (new version) and I agree it needs CornerFix for most shots. Apart from this, it is still a stellar performer for the price. Firmware can address this I assume? Yes it could, but don't hold your breath. Anyways, third party lenses will not be supported for obvious reasons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
satureyes Posted July 8, 2013 Share #20 Posted July 8, 2013 I have Voigtlander 12/5.6 (new version) and I agree it needs CornerFix for most shots. Apart from this, it is still a stellar performer for the price. Yes it could, but don't hold your breath. Anyways, third party lenses will not be supported for obvious reasons. I know- but even slightly better would be better than not at all. I'm seeing magenta banding on Leica lenses thought so would be more than happy if they sorted that. Anything else is a bonus. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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