sblitz Posted January 2, 2014 Share #4021 Posted January 2, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Looks like it took 202 pages to go from excited anticipation to disappointment. Can't blame people for trying, after all what is a Leica if not the lens? The film Ms, I love the feel and quality, but they are light boxes -- the quality is about the lens and the film. Today, its the lens and the sensor. Leica has proven itself to contract to get a good sensor, etc., but so have others. Sounds, though, as if the perfect marriage of Leica lens to someone else's sensor is not yet evident. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 2, 2014 Posted January 2, 2014 Hi sblitz, Take a look here The Sony A7 thread [Merged]. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
k-hawinkler Posted January 2, 2014 Share #4022 Posted January 2, 2014 Looks like it took 202 pages to go from excited anticipation to disappointment. Can't blame people for trying, after all what is a Leica if not the lens? The film Ms, I love the feel and quality, but they are light boxes -- the quality is about the lens and the film. Today, its the lens and the sensor. Leica has proven itself to contract to get a good sensor, etc., but so have others. Sounds, though, as if the perfect marriage of Leica lens to someone else's sensor is not yet evident. You certainly don't speak for me. There is no disappointment on my part with the Sony A7R. I find it a wonderful tool to use and also to hand out to family members to use as a P&S camera. As any camera it also has its quirks and limitations. I am already getting to know my copy quite well and to use it within its useful limits. It also had made me much more aware of the constraints that the rangefinder approach has imposed on Leica lens design. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plott Posted January 2, 2014 Share #4023 Posted January 2, 2014 Hi, no disappointment I am very happy to have the A7, because I can use my Leica-glasses - I mean, I can focus this lenses with the peaking. I had an M9, but was unable to focus with the rangefinder, because of my eye-failure, that´s it. Of course, there are some issues with WA-lenses, and UWA´s are mostly a no-go. But I can live with it, I simply don´t use this lenses very often. One point is important regarding the A7®: You must learn to operate it. Just like with the M, it is almost impossible to make (technically) good pictures right from the beginning, but you can make wonderful images after the learning process. Is the A7 the better M? No, definitely not, regarding the feel and of course the "photographic process". Is the IQ better? I don´t know, I like both of them (and what is "better?"). Can the A7 produce superb images? Oh yes, definitely. For me - it´s enough Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted January 2, 2014 Share #4024 Posted January 2, 2014 You certainly don't speak for me.There is no disappointment on my part with the Sony A7R. I find it a wonderful tool to use and also to hand out to family members to use as a P&S camera. As any camera it also has its quirks and limitations. I am already getting to know my copy quite well and to use it within its useful limits. It also had made me much more aware of the constraints that the rangefinder approach has imposed on Leica lens design. I believe he is speaking generally. There are several here that are happy with the camera, like yourself, but most Leica lens shooters seem to have returned it or not jumped on board. Sblitz didn't say you can't get good results from the A7R. He is just saying that for us Leica lens shooters (that's most of us here on this forum), the results aren't perfect. He said, "Sounds, though, as if the perfect marriage of Leica lens to someone else's sensor is not yet evident." That is all I got out of his post. That was it for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted January 2, 2014 Share #4025 Posted January 2, 2014 I believe he is speaking generally. There are several here that are happy with the camera, like yourself, but most Leica lens shooters seem to have returned it or not jumped on board. Sblitz didn't say you can't get good results from the A7R. He is just saying that for us Leica lens shooters (that's most of us here on this forum), the results aren't perfect. He said, "Sounds, though, as if the perfect marriage of Leica lens to someone else's sensor is not yet evident." That is all I got out of his post. That was it for me. I am a Leica shooter myself and you don't speak for me either. I never said I was speaking for anybody else but myself. Unless somebody asks you to, I don't think you can speak for somebody else either. This might be of interest to some folks. It's a comparison of several 50ish lenses. The GetDPI Photography Forums - View Single Post - A7r - and why I'm keeping it ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted January 2, 2014 Share #4026 Posted January 2, 2014 I am a Leica shooter myself and you don't speak for me either.I never said I was speaking for anybody else but myself. Unless somebody asks you to, I don't think you can speak for somebody else either. This might be of interest to some folks. It's a comparison of several 50ish lenses. The GetDPI Photography Forums - View Single Post - A7r - and why I'm keeping it ... Hey, slow down. I never said I was speaking for you. But, I can have an opinion too. Ok? You are not the only one here that can have an opinion. I have been very reserved in my comments about what I really think about this camera and how it was marketed and I haven't commented much at all why I sold it. It doesn't matter. I know that there are folks that have it and like it. I also know that a lot of those here that have it are very sensitive and defend it like it is a soccer team. So, I'm careful to couch my comments because guys like you are ready to jump in and defend it... like you just did... then get the usual "thanks" from the other folks that have it. Which is fine with me, just speaking for me, need to make that clear with you. But, for me and others here it doesn't work for us. Not you, I know that is clear. So, what is the big deal about saying it doesn't work perfectly with all (any) Leica lenses. It is a fact? People post all the time here that the M240 has all sorts of problems (which it does too). Why is it that you won't allow any posts that point out the deficiencies of the A7R without posting that they don't speak for you??? I bought it and kept an open mind and like John stated, it was an interesting exercise. Some got it and the exercise worked for them and some of us the exercise didn't work for us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted January 2, 2014 Share #4027 Posted January 2, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am not defending anything. I try to present the facts as I encounter them, the good, the bad, and the ugly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanJW Posted January 2, 2014 Share #4028 Posted January 2, 2014 Once you have set up the A7 it is pretty easy to use and in fact the menu system seems to be a vast improvement on what I have come across before from Sony. I am using the A7 (not the R) almost exclusively wight he sony/zeiss 55 f1.8 and it is a fantastic combo with amazing IQ. the only other lens I really use on it is the CV35/1.2 v2 which seems to work very well. wide angle lenses I will only use on the M as it is obviously a lot better in this area. I now carry the M with the 28 cron and the A7 with the 55 and am happy with this working combination. After selling both my M9's to finance the M I just couldn't really afford or justify another M body I am in agreement. I am nowhere close to abandoning my M(240) but I too could not afford two of those. The A7r gives me a usable backup with M lenses, and the Zeiss 55 f/1.8 is an excellent lens. I have a trip to Yosemite next year and I expect that the Sony will have the 55 or longer M longer lenses on it and the M the wides. Having had a Nex7 for a while (and abandoning it in part because the ergonomics were so bad), I also agree that Sony has done some real improvement on the menu system. It is fairly easy to set up and with an M lens on it and one of the dials for shutter speed, it is not radically different from an M. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted January 3, 2014 Share #4029 Posted January 3, 2014 Hey, slow down. I never said I was speaking for you. But, I can have an opinion too. Ok? You are not the only one here that can have an opinion. I have been very reserved in my comments about what I really think about this camera and how it was marketed and I haven't commented much at all why I sold it. It doesn't matter. I know that there are folks that have it and like it. I also know that a lot of those here that have it are very sensitive and defend it like it is a soccer team. So, I'm careful to couch my comments because guys like you are ready to jump in and defend it... like you just did... then get the usual "thanks" from the other folks that have it. Which is fine with me, just speaking for me, need to make that clear with you. But, for me and others here it doesn't work for us. Not you, I know that is clear. So, what is the big deal about saying it doesn't work perfectly with all (any) Leica lenses. It is a fact? People post all the time here that the M240 has all sorts of problems (which it does too). Why is it that you won't allow any posts that point out the deficiencies of the A7R without posting that they don't speak for you??? I bought it and kept an open mind and like John stated, it was an interesting exercise. Some got it and the exercise worked for them and some of us the exercise didn't work for us. You are certainly entitled to your own opinions. And as one can see you freely dispense of them. However, you are not entitled to your own facts. Nobody is! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted January 3, 2014 Share #4030 Posted January 3, 2014 BTW, I am no longer speaking for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted January 3, 2014 Share #4031 Posted January 3, 2014 Lou, when you say "fuzziness," are you referring to soft/ smeared periphery of the image? I imagine you controlled for shutter shake, so your evaluation was based on the clear superiority of M240 full frame, and not just in center? I am not sure what caused all the "fuzziness". Could have been some shutter vibration or my technique. although I was on tripod even with the 15 @ 5.6-8. So it was all over the images that turned me off not just edges, but center too. I was using the Metabones adapter with QR base.The 36MP was why I wanted to try it, not that 24 was not enough. I tripod a lot and it should have worked better for me. I keep wondering if the 24MP a7 would have been the better choice as an M240 backup. I will revisit when I believe another model might float my boat. I have the RX-1 and find it a very fine camera. I had the FE35 and it was gorgeous on the camera, but building up a whole other system right now was not what I had in mind when getting the a7R and wanted to see how the native glass performed. The FE 24-70 might get me interested again especially if a delay between the 2 shutter actions is lengthened. Some have worked very hard to get their a7R to work with long R lenses and every week things seem to get better and better. One person in particular comes to mind in this regard and that is K-H. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted January 3, 2014 Share #4032 Posted January 3, 2014 You are certainly entitled to your own opinions.And as one can see you freely dispense of them. However, you are not entitled to your own facts. Nobody is! Can we discuss the camera without all of the emotion? You just made my point for me, by the way. I'll check out of the discussion now. I know where it is going already. And, I guess I could care less about the camera now, so why be here. Rick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecaton Posted January 3, 2014 Share #4033 Posted January 3, 2014 Adorable 50s - Teil II - Systemkamera Forum The FE 1.8/55 is the lens to get for the A7®. M lenses are too much of a compromise on the Sony neither allowing to exploit the potential of the sensor nor the lens` potential. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 3, 2014 Share #4034 Posted January 3, 2014 A pity. It could, by the specs, have been a very useful second camera for me…. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
imants Posted January 3, 2014 Share #4035 Posted January 3, 2014 Can we discuss the camera without all of the emotion? You just made my point for me, by the way. I'll check out of the discussion now. I know where it is going already. And, I guess I could care less about the camera now, so why be here. Rick sounds like "I am taking my bat and ball and going home because you are not playing the way I want "mentality Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 3, 2014 Share #4036 Posted January 3, 2014 Don't believe in miracles anymore but i expected better results with R lenses i must say. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hossegor Posted January 3, 2014 Share #4037 Posted January 3, 2014 i am loving mine, i find it works very well with my Nocti, 75 Lux and 50 Cron. It also works nice with my old Nikon glas. i returned my M240 and kept the A7R. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indie Posted January 3, 2014 Share #4038 Posted January 3, 2014 Can we discuss the camera without all of the emotion? You just made my point for me, by the way. I'll check out of the discussion now. I know where it is going already. And, I guess I could care less about the camera now, so why be here. Rick I think you mean you couldn't care less about the camera right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted January 3, 2014 Share #4039 Posted January 3, 2014 Don't believe in miracles anymore but i expected better results with R lenses i must say. Me too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModernMan Posted January 3, 2014 Share #4040 Posted January 3, 2014 Don't believe in miracles anymore but i expected better results with R lenses i must say. Just curious -- with which Leica R lenses did the A7r disappoint? I though the performance looked great with my 100 APO Macro and very good with the 28-90. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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