The Sony A7 thread [Merged]

[Jaybob]

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I think that your style of challenge contributes nothing to the thread and is calculated merely to put moderators on the spot and to wreck the good feeling of the exchange.

 

I wholeheartedly disagree. I'm a longtime Sony NEX and soon to be a7 guy! I just believe that now that the camera is available this isn't the best place to post images taken with relatively new adapted Nikkor glass. It's a slippery slope.

 

Please reread what I have said.

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[Mr_Jones]

Anyone else having problems with handholding shutter speeds ?

 

Took a whole load of pics with my 50/2.8 collapsible yesterday at 1/60.......

 

Hardly any are in focus due to shake ... or similar......

 

With an M body I can manage 1/30 with no issues and often less if I am careful.

 

Is it the shutter rattling the pixels ???

 

It's my reason for returning it. I prefer to know that I can shoot handheld down to a fraction of the lens length and get usable results when I'm back at the computer. I've opted for the M240 and I'm happy with it's compromises. I'm getting great results at low shutter speeds again and that equals a couple of stops extra in some cases.

 

I would rate the Sony as an autofocus camera with the Zeiss AF lenses but I'm not in the market for that kind of technology. I did enjoy the smile shutter though.

[3D-Kraft.com]

Completely non-Leica photographs are indeed not permitted on this forum.

 

Jaapv, I can not read that interpretation from this forum's rules. Those rules only indicate to me, that the forum is meant primarily as a platform to get into contact with other Leica users that also share a passion for Leica.

 

In my case after too much frustration with shortcomings of Leica digital bodies, it is not a passion for Leica bodies anymore but at least I share a passion for Leica lenses (although not exclusively). And I think the new Sony fullframe mirrorless beeing able to adapt RF lenses have a large intersection with concerns of many Leica users and many of them will use both side by side (at least for some time... and many still own some C/N/etc. gear that can be used on Leica M in live view as well).

 

Even so, please do observe the rules of the forum and post your photographs with other than Leica lenses in a Sony forum please. You can always refer to them in this thread.

 

What sense does this make anymore? Technically there is not much a difference in showing a photo here or in linking to it. Visually of course it is a difference but it may have the risk that a too close-minded forum takes the same descent in the number of users as we will see in the sales of M bodies. As a consequence you will not see any photo here that is impossible (if not by accident) to be taken with a Leica body or a M lens (e.g. tilt/shift, fast moving objects etc.).

 

As this is quite a principle decision and may cast out users that Andreas may like to keep here, I ask you to reassure that with Andreas. If it gets confirmed, I will accept that and take the consequence.

[AlanG]

I would think that using the electronic first curtain on the A7 would put any shutter vibration after the exposure.

 

Yes. When the Nex 6 is set to use the first curtain electronic shutter, some of the vibration (and sound) is after the exposure. But the second shutter is still moving across the frame in a sweep to end the exposure. I am not sure if that affects the image. However I became curious and ran a test with my Nex 6. I shot at 1/2 second at f8 with the 16-50 zoom at 35mm. (50 equiv. on FF.)

 

This image was made with the standard shutter setting. I could get this level of sharpness in about 1 in 3 frames. I found virtually the same results using the electronic first curtain setting. I also tried a full second and that was too blurry just about every time.

 

The issue for me seems to be holding the camera steady, not the shutter itself. Otherwise all of the images should be blurrier from the mechanical shutter samples compared to the first curtain electronic ones. Plus if the shutter causes so much vibration, how am I able to absorb it when hand holding? I know when I used a Mamiya with MF back I had to use the mirror lockup to get sharp images at lowish speeds even when using a tripod.

 

If I decide to get an A7R I may test it to see if I can hand hold it at 1/2 second with comparable final image magnification. If not maybe the Nex 6 or another camera is a better choice for some things. Of course since the A7R is capable of higher res. If I require more magnification (which is the main reason for using an A7R in place of the Nex) then it is possible that an identical level of vibration as on the Nex could limit the resolution when hand holding. And more vibration would not be good. Maybe the limitation will be my ability to hold the camera even if it had no moving parts. My main use for the A7R would be architecture. For interiors that is always on a tripod. But I often hand hold for daytime exteriors.

 

So I'll have to see. Maybe a simple test is with the camera resting on a table using the timer. I am not sure how to remove the human element from this kind of test. But I think I am consistent enough that I could shoot handheld with several cameras and see what the total magnification limit for a given amount of detail is acceptable to me at various speeds. Perhaps to get the most out of the Nex, Leica M, or the A7R, a 1/2 second is crazy. But we are not always talking about getting the most out of a system. Using a 36MP camera handheld and expecting to always get the most out of it is a questionable strategy to begin with.

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[3D-Kraft.com]

It would be wrong to say that the A7R has problems with Leica wides. The WATE and the 21 Summilux work well, the 28 Summicron is okay (not great, but okay) and the 35 Summilux FLE seems fine. All my longer lenses are great with the camera.

 

As far as I saw it until now, I would add the 21mm/2.8 Elmarit to the list of working WA lenses.

[BJDrew]

It's my reason for returning it. I prefer to know that I can shoot handheld down to a fraction of the lens length and get usable results when I'm back at the computer. I've opted for the M240 and I'm happy with it's compromises. I'm getting great results at low shutter speeds again and that equals a couple of stops extra in some cases.

 

I would rate the Sony as an autofocus camera with the Zeiss AF lenses but I'm not in the market for that kind of technology. I did enjoy the smile shutter though.

 

I'm using the A7r with the same shutter speeds as my M9. No difference. Not even a little. If you peep at 100%, you may be making making a false comparison.

 

Downsample to 18MP, and ta-da! Shake is gone. Great equalizer.

 

One cannot expect to peep a 36MP file at 100% and an 18 or 24MP file at 100% and see the same amount of camera shake. Physics is against you. If that's not the issue, it may be a matter of learning to hold a new camera in a stable way and gently release the shutter.

[thighslapper]

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I have a few friends who were very quick to order the A7R and have now received them. They were eager to use the camera with their M Leica lenses. Across the board, they are expressing disappointment--one is even on the verge of sending his back--in large measure due to the amount of vibration from the shutter. Part of the problem is that with a 36 MP sensor, any amount of vibration is going to be highly evident. All are experiencing a large proportion of unsharp images when hand holding. The other issue they're experiencing, which I know has been addressed here and elsewhere, is pixel smearing at the edges, particularly in the corners, of images when using M wides from 35mm on down. The Sony 35mm f/2.8 is producing good images that are sharp corner to corner.

 

After being initially ready to jump in, I'm definitely putting this purchase on hold.

 

Thanks for that.

 

This venture into Sony FF land has been quite illuminating.

 

The outcome for me is also rather unexpected........

 

The A7r will be re-homed after the Xmas madness has settled. The pros do not exceed the cons. There is a long list that I will not bore you with .... and the Sony fans will rubbish most of it anyway

 

All the non Leica gear in the house is going on eBay, even if the return is pitiful ......

 

The cash will fund another couple of R and/or M lenses to fill in some gaps.

 

I can do everything I want with an M, MM and a old M9 as a back-up, and get image quality that more than satisfies my needs. The M EVF is eminently functional, even if not up to current Olympus/Sony/Fuji standards

 

Unless there is a quantum leap in technology, ergonomics and flexibility it will be M and MM for the forseeable future.

 

Sorry chaps, but each time I go out with the camera I just find more things that irritate or depress me, and using it just isn't a pleasure......

[IkarusJohn]

Thanks for that.

 

This venture into Sony FF land has been quite illuminating.

 

The outcome for me is also rather unexpected........

 

The A7r will be re-homed after the Xmas madness has settled. The pros do not exceed the cons. There is a long list that I will not bore you with .... and the Sony fans will rubbish most of it anyway

 

All the non Leica gear in the house is going on eBay, even if the return is pitiful ......

 

The cash will fund another couple of R and/or M lenses to fill in some gaps.

 

I can do everything I want with an M, MM and a old M9 as a back-up, and get image quality that more than satisfies my needs. The M EVF is eminently functional, even if not up to current Olympus/Sony/Fuji standards

 

Unless there is a quantum leap in technology, ergonomics and flexibility it will be M and MM for the forseeable future.

 

Sorry chaps, but each time I go out with the camera I just find more things that irritate or depress me, and using it just isn't a pleasure......

 

I think that is a perfectly reasonable conclusion.

 

If I could (or wanted to) restrict myself to focal lengths between 21 and 90, I think I would do the same. Perhaps I need to think about that more ...

[algrove]

I tried a back to back on the a7r and M240 and the differences are evident.

I used the APO70-180. 280/4.0, 80/1.4 and APO 180/2.8 @5.6. The latter's images seemed the best of the three with this test which was less than scientific. Nice contrast and good definition for my eye. I had the a7r set to ISO50 and the M at 200 which was not a good comparison. Will try again later this week with both at ISO 200 before our weather gets cold and drops below 20C.

The images come out 37mb and I am not yet sure about the compression method Sony is using. It seems they favor jpegs over RAW in their Help Guide. Many nice sounding functions will not operate in RAW. I might not use them, but would like to give them a try.

 

All in all a very nice compact package for R lens use. I have the solid Metabones R-E adapter which has a built in QR plate-nice addition.

[magosak]

... The latter's images seemed the best of the three with this test which was less than scientific.

You mentioned two cameras and four lenses. Can you clarify?

 

Also, can you say a few words about the IQ with 80mm f/1.4 on A7R? Thanks.

[jaapv]

Jaapv, I can not read that interpretation from this forum's rules. Those rules only indicate to me, that the forum is meant primarily as a platform to get into contact with other Leica users that also share a passion for Leica.

 

In my case after too much frustration with shortcomings of Leica digital bodies, it is not a passion for Leica bodies anymore but at least I share a passion for Leica lenses (although not exclusively). And I think the new Sony fullframe mirrorless beeing able to adapt RF lenses have a large intersection with concerns of many Leica users and many of them will use both side by side (at least for some time... and many still own some C/N/etc. gear that can be used on Leica M in live view as well).

 

 

 

What sense does this make anymore? Technically there is not much a difference in showing a photo here or in linking to it. Visually of course it is a difference but it may have the risk that a too close-minded forum takes the same descent in the number of users as we will see in the sales of M bodies. As a consequence you will not see any photo here that is impossible (if not by accident) to be taken with a Leica body or a M lens (e.g. tilt/shift, fast moving objects etc.).

 

As this is quite a principle decision and may cast out users that Andreas may like to keep here, I ask you to reassure that with Andreas. If it gets confirmed, I will accept that and take the consequence.

Linking to is not referring to. The forum rules are clear: No photographs are allowed that are not taken with Leica equipment. If you prefer I can simply delete them, instead of asking politely to restrain yourself, which is what I did. I don’t think photographs taken by a Sony camera with Nikon lenses add much constructive information on a Leica forum. .

 

 

Prerequisite for placing a photo is that it has been made with Leica equipment and/or has a strong relationship to a Leica subject. For the avoidance of doubt, this includes the use of Leica lenses on third party bodies, Leica lenses on Leica partner cameras (e.g. Panasonic) and the use of third party lenses on Leica bodies. In general, photographs taken without the use of Leica equipment are not permitted.

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/about-leica-forum/6909-rules-leica-forum.html#post66112

[3D-Kraft.com]

The forum rules are clear: No photographs are allowed that are not taken with Leica equipment.

 

Where is that written? I could not find that.

 

EDIT: Ok, I saw your added link after I wrote my reply. So this means NO PHOTOS OF SONY A7® WITH ZEISS OR VOIGTLANDER LENSES HERE AS WELL.

 

Good luck with these rules and see you at FredMiranda, getDPI etc.!

 

I don’t think photographs taken by a Sony camera with Nikon lenses add much constructive information on a Leica forum..

 

As far as I know you from previous situations, that's your personal opinion. What counts for me is the vision of Andreas, the operator of this forum.

[NJH]

I don't know if it has been said yet but the colour coming out of this camera is really lovely, its pretty much the first thing I note looking at shots on the net posted over the past week or two.

[MarkP]

Thanks for that.

 

This venture into Sony FF land has been quite illuminating.

 

The outcome for me is also rather unexpected........

 

The A7r will be re-homed after the Xmas madness has settled. The pros do not exceed the cons. There is a long list that I will not bore you with .... and the Sony fans will rubbish most of it anyway

 

All the non Leica gear in the house is going on eBay, even if the return is pitiful ......

 

The cash will fund another couple of R and/or M lenses to fill in some gaps.

 

I can do everything I want with an M, MM and a old M9 as a back-up, and get image quality that more than satisfies my needs. The M EVF is eminently functional, even if not up to current Olympus/Sony/Fuji standards

 

Unless there is a quantum leap in technology, ergonomics and flexibility it will be M and MM for the forseeable future.

 

Sorry chaps, but each time I go out with the camera I just find more things that irritate or depress me, and using it just isn't a pleasure......

 

Thank you for summarising your thoughts.

This is exactly why I'm glad I held off buying the A7R.

The money I save by not buying the A7r and its accessories will go towards a new lens.

[sc_rufctr]

Thank you for summarising your thoughts.

This is exactly why I'm glad I held off buying the A7R.

The money I save by not buying the A7r and its accessories will go towards a new lens.

 

Interesting because I feel the same way.

 

I really don't consider my myself a "fan boy" but owning Leica gear is almost a curse IMO.

There's just no going back

[jdlaing]

Where is that written? I could not find that.\

 

 

Prerequisite for placing a photo is that it has been made with Leica equipment and/or has a strong relationship to a Leica subject. For the avoidance of doubt, this includes the use of Leica lenses on third party bodies, Leica lenses on Leica partner cameras (e.g. Panasonic) and the use of third party lenses on Leica bodies. In general, photographs taken without the use of Leica equipment are not permitted.

 

Andreas posted this and it can't really be any clearer.

[almoore]

I personally refrain from posting images that weren't made with Leica glass or cameras in this Leica forum. Those are the rules of this place, rules that I didn't write.

You can do what ever you like...

 

Only now, since you bounced a moderator into taking a needlessly authoritarian stance, people can't do whatever they like.

 

The sheer length of this thread on a Leica forum should be some indication of the relevance of this camera. If the topic was of no interest to you then why the need to intrude? I've got no affinity with the threads where people chat about trussing their cameras up in oddly fetishistic Italian leather outfits, but I wouldn't dream of crashing in and demanding that the discussion is moved to a leatherware forum.

 

Circling the wagons protectively around the Leica M isn't going to dampen people's interest in this quirky little Sony camera, it's just going to make them seek information elsewhere. And it's difficult to see how that will benefit the overall health and long-term future of the forum.

[woorob]

How odd -- it's okay to have a thread with more than 3,000 posts about a Sony camera, many solely about Zeiss lenses on that camera, but not okay to have a few comments (interesting to me at least) about the same camera with a Nikon or Canon lens?

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[k-hawinkler]

Dremel.

 

Not necessary.

 

Instead of attaching the A7R via Novoflex NEX/NIK and NIKA to the Novoflex Slow Focusing Tube simply attach via Novoflex NEX/LER and LEA-R.

 

Problem solved! The GetDPI Photography Forums - View Single Post - A7r - and why I'm keeping it ...

 

Of course, there is still the usual amount of vignetting when shooting wide open and focusing at infinity.

But that's a property of the lens and not of the adapters.

[AlanG]

For what its worth I used to use a Novoflex 640 with the pistol grip rapid focusing and a Leicaflex SL shooting motorsports and other things. It had a metal shoulder stock and dual pistol grips and looked like a small RPG launcher.

 

One day I had it near the White House to shoot Brezhnev crossing from Blair House. The Secret Service knew what it was because they used these too. But they still checked it out when I arrived. My cousin's camera store was the camera supplier to the Secret Service and we sold them a lot of these. We had the bellows and all kinds of Novoflex lens adapters and accessories.

 

I was only half joking when I wrote, "Dremel." I actually have had to file out some things to eliminate vignetting.

 

This was OK for video but stills have a different aspect ratio and it vignetted. So I "Dremeled" it.

 

I see some people are getting their feathers ruffled over photos unrelated to Leica being posted. I can understand their point but I think this entire thread illustrates why Leica needs to make a modern FF AF camera system.