Jjbru Posted September 25, 2013 Share #141 Posted September 25, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) When my Porsche is dirty, i clean it or bring it to the garage. There is certainly a photographer in your country who can help you. But writing a letter to ferdinand Porsche would be amateurism, , childisch and stupid. You should be happy to have your camera and the subject is really not worth so many comments. Do you really want to wait for 2 months until your camera comes back from Solmes... Read about the dirty spot comments of Nikon D 600. This was a real peoblem!!!! Be happy, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 25, 2013 Posted September 25, 2013 Hi Jjbru, Take a look here Leica M 240 what is going on. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wlaidlaw Posted September 25, 2013 Share #142 Posted September 25, 2013 There have been reports of problems in cleaning the sensor of the MM. I hope that there will not be any special difficulty with the new M. I too got plenty of practice in sensor cleaning with my M9 during its first 6 months but very rarely thereafter. My M240 arrived four weeks ago and despite fairly frequent lens changes while trying out all my Leica and Voigtlander lenses as well as my Visoflex stuff, I have not seen any evidence of dust on the sensor yet. The lack of other reports of dust problems with the M is encouraging. Archie, Have you had a look with the dust detection tool on the camera menu - you may get a shock. I think this is hypersensitive and finds specs where I cannot see them with an illuminated loupe but a useful tool to show location of dust with a synthesised representation of the front mount. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted September 25, 2013 Share #143 Posted September 25, 2013 The dust/oil/residue/w.h.y. is not on the sensor ... it's on the sensor filter. The talk of it being on the sensor might put off potential buyers who might worry too much about whether or not they are up to the task of cleaning it off. If they realised the residue is on a glass filter covering the sensor they might not be so apprehensive about acquiring a camera which requires sensor filter cleaning. Has anyone tried the mini vacuum cleaner in the Delkin Sensor Scope Kit? Looks as if it might be a useful tool for sucking up sensor filter debris instead of using e.g. a blower which might blow it back inside the camera. Best wishes dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted September 25, 2013 Share #144 Posted September 25, 2013 Dunk, I seem to recall someone did try the Delkin and found it was useless. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted September 25, 2013 Share #145 Posted September 25, 2013 Dunk, I seem to recall someone did try the Delkin and found it was useless. Wilson Pretty much. I threw the Delkin stuff away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted September 25, 2013 Share #146 Posted September 25, 2013 Dunk, I seem to recall someone did try the Delkin and found it was useless. Wilson Thank you Wilson ... I was considering buying the kit dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 25, 2013 Share #147 Posted September 25, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) The Green Clean mini vacuum cleaner is quite effective. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 25, 2013 Share #148 Posted September 25, 2013 Once again, the answer is the Eclipse solution and sensor swabs. Unfortunately, both my M9 and M9-P have sprayed oil on the sensor. Same thing with the S2, I am afraid. Have been cleaning the sensors regularly, despite well intentioned warnings by people on this forum and others. Sensor swabs and a bottle of Eclipse have been with me to Africa, the Caribbean, Malta and many other destinations. It is a "fact of life" as others say here but it is bloody infuriating nevertheless. I doubt the spots are pollen or dust and I bet most of them are shutter lube or something from inside the camera. If you can't live with that, get a Sony RX-1; the sensor and lens are one sealed unit and there are no spots ever. If you want to use an M/M9 or S/S2 just accept that even the German boffins can't figure out, in the 21st century, how to make a $10k camera that does not spray gunk over a sensor! You have to clean it yourself... no point sending the camera anywhere, since it will spray gunk over the sensor the moment you take another shot with it, after being cleaned. But it will get better with time - after about 6 months, you will notice that your sensor does not show 60 spots but maybe only 30 or even less. In the meantime - Eclipse, sensor swabs and the healing brush tools will be your friends. You'd loose your bet, I inspect my sensors under a surgical microscope; only a minority of the spots are grease. Most of the early stuff are minuscule machining debris. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted September 25, 2013 Share #149 Posted September 25, 2013 You would have thought that Leica would have used an ultrasonic cleaning bath, which should remove virtually all such machining debris. A few years ago, when I did some satellite transponder operating life insurance, I went round the BAE/EADS factory (they were trying to get us to lower their premiums). They had all sorts of procedures for removal of metal or other dust and contamination, which can cause all sorts of problems in a vacuum and zero gravity. Maybe someone from Leica should go and see how they do it and adopt similar procedures for the new plant in Wetzlar. Metal dust may be one reason for anomalous behaviour of cameras, when it gets in the electronics. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayewing Posted September 25, 2013 Share #150 Posted September 25, 2013 Archie,Have you had a look with the dust detection tool on the camera menu - you may get a shock. I think this is hypersensitive and finds specs where I cannot see them with an illuminated loupe but a useful tool to show location of dust with a synthesised representation of the front mount. Wilson Wilson, I had not used the dust detection tool as my past experience with my Pentax DSLRs which have a similar device caused a certain amount of unnecessary alarm and despondency so I investigate only when the dust spots are becoming annoying. Out of curiosity I tried dust detection this evening and sure enough it showed a nice sprinkling of small spots. Inspection with the Visible Dust loupe confirmed a few small dust particles which I have ignored as they do not seem to be causing any noticeable problems in the images I have taken. No doubt a sensor clean will be needed before long. Leica are happy to use the Olympus EVF. Maybe they should license their auto sensor cleaning system too as it seems to be about the best in the business. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted September 27, 2013 Share #151 Posted September 27, 2013 You'd loose your bet, I inspect my sensors under a surgical microscope; only a minority of the spots are grease. Most of the early stuff are minuscule machining debris. Any moving mechanical parts generate friction, and thus wear, with resultant 'debris' being deposited wherever it settles e.g. in and around a camera shutter and sensor. The M 240 has a dual type shutter with more moving parts than the M9 shutter. Furthermore the M 240 shutter has the additional 'open-close-open-close' action when the camera is in live view and spot metering modes. The additional shutter movements may have greater potential for generating friction dust. Other camera manufacturers use the 'sensor vibrate/shake it off' method to minimise dust building up on sensor filter. Leica does not use vibrating sensors. The alleged 'miniscule machining debris' is unlikely to have been sitting dormant within the body ever since the camera was assembled. The debris is more likely to have been generated by shutter friction with resultant dust migrating to the sensor filter. I am aware that Leica Mayfair in London routinely clean all around the shutter when sensor cleaning M cameras; they do not merely clean the sensor filter. Maybe Leica M camera owners need to adopt a more thorough approach to sensor cleaning, and similarly to Leica Mayfair, pay more attention to removing dust around the shutter. Maybe the 'Green Clean' mini vacuum can assist in the necessary shutter dust removal? A shutter clean in time could prevent sensor grime Leica Mayfair now offer free 'M' sensor cleans 'while you wait' if 'M' series camera owners make the necessary appointments to visit. This service does not extend to non-M cameras which require dismantling by Solms. Best wishes dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted September 27, 2013 Share #152 Posted September 27, 2013 Last Sunday July 21 I finally received the M 240 as you all know a very long wait. Years we have been waiting for this camera. Best professional camera 2013 in my hands. When I received the camera which I purchased through Hong Kong I immediately attached the 50/1.4. Then finally three days later last Thursday July 25 I found some time to take out the camera for some shooting. Feels terrific and the low light ability does not seem to be an issue any longer. Then after 24 hours out in the open I anxiously set down and uploaded the images on the computer. Big apple, big screen on Lightroom. Wau what appeared blew me away in every sense. Colors are fantastic and the white balance seems to be only slightly off. I took about 200 shots and for a very short time I felled like I was in heaven. But then my marriage with Leica broke, possible for ever. Spots and lots of it. Spots every where. The sensors is covered in them. Today I found a little time and checked them out. There is a function in the menus allowing you to check for dust and spots. And guess what the sensor is covered. I then took some shots with closed aperture on white back ground and printed them out. A quick count revealed at least 60 spots and this only quickly. With other words that hand made presses son tool made in Germany is totally useless. Believe me I am upset after waiting such a long time and spending US$10000.I own a lot of Leic gear. R8. Digital back. Lots of R lenses. M8.2 M9 and various lenses. Beside all this several small ones. What really gets me is the fact that I had exactly the same problem with the M9. It took Leica a whole year before I received a replacement model. Then the new M9 also showed spots after a few weeks and within a year the sensor needed to be changed. This I had done through the service center in Singapore which took an enourmes 6 months. To me the only acceptable answer from Leica would be if the camera is replaced with a brand new model immediately. Unfortunately I live in Bali in Indonesia and now have to get the camera back to Hong Kong. Then in Hong Kong to Schmit marketing. From there back to Germany and by the time I have an answer I might be several times grand father, Something is not right and I need to share my total and absolute frustration with the supporters of Leica. I will tomorrow write a personal letter to the president of Leica which I guess will be a waist of time. Similar a waist was spending $10000 on something which does not work. I love live and the island of Gods Heinz von Holzen Stop Bitching about it..............Clean it yourself and go back out shooting and post up some pictures Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted September 27, 2013 Share #153 Posted September 27, 2013 You would have thought that Leica would have used an ultrasonic cleaning bath, which should remove virtually all such machining debris. A few years ago, when I did some satellite transponder operating life insurance, I went round the BAE/EADS factory (they were trying to get us to lower their premiums). They had all sorts of procedures for removal of metal or other dust and contamination, which can cause all sorts of problems in a vacuum and zero gravity. Maybe someone from Leica should go and see how they do it and adopt similar procedures for the new plant in Wetzlar. Metal dust may be one reason for anomalous behaviour of cameras, when it gets in the electronics. Wilson I heard over the grapevine that the new manufacturing facilities in Leitz Park Wetzlar will be 'bubbled' to prevent dust contamination. Visitors will not be permitted to enter the 'bubbles' ... but will be able to see into them when touring the plant. Thus appears they will be manufacturing lenses and cameras in dust free environments ... which presumably will necessitate installation of efficient dust extraction systems. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted September 27, 2013 Share #154 Posted September 27, 2013 I heard over the grapevine that the new manufacturing facilities in Leitz Park Wetzlar will be 'bubbled' [...]dunk And all the employees will be Eunuchs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 28, 2013 Share #155 Posted September 28, 2013 Of course. It is well known that eunuchs don't spread dust... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
balifoods Posted October 7, 2013 Author Share #156 Posted October 7, 2013 I am not certain if this note will be of any interest to anyone out there. After my post on the forum I had the M240 sensor professionally cleaned. To my total and absolute frustration the spots where back within 50 shots, which marked the end for me with Leica. I send the camera back to Hong Kong and received a almost full refund from the dealer minus $1000. Problem solved. Well the story with Leica does not end here. The M9 which I purchased about three years ago and showed terrible spots absolutely all the time was finally replaced after a year with a new model. Within 6 months the camera went back to the service station to Singapore which replaced the faulty sensor with a new which only took about 6 yes about 6 months to do. I received the camera back in March this year and never actually had the sensor cleaned. about 6 weeks ago a small line looking like a hair appeared on the sensor. The camera went back from Bali to Singapore to the service center which of course kept the camera with the explanation that the sensor is scratched. How is this possible when the sensor was never touched. I just received a note from Singapore that they will replace the sensor locally which will be done sometimes in November or December. Well nothing works in December anyhow and I probably will have the camera back sometimes next year. Just think about having the camera for three years, of which the camera spends two years in repair. Totally absolutely not acceptable. Well this marks my divorce with Leica. Yes the glass is certainly outstanding, but o good the cameras are.....I need a camera that I can depend on for my work and Leica definitely does not comes close to this expectations. The Mark 3 costs a lot less then 1/2 of the M240 and nobody can possible blow me a whistle that the colors of an M are twice as good......I now own a Mark three for over a year, and guess what I still have no spots on the sensor........ I am bitterly disappointed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted October 7, 2013 Share #157 Posted October 7, 2013 Cleaning the M240's sensor yourself would have taken you ten minutes instead. Matter of choice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted October 7, 2013 Share #158 Posted October 7, 2013 I am not certain if this note will be of any interest to anyone out there.After my post on the forum I had the M240 sensor professionally cleaned. To my total and absolute frustration the spots where back within 50 shots, which marked the end for me with Leica. I send the camera back to Hong Kong and received a almost full refund from the dealer minus $1000. Problem solved. Well the story with Leica does not end here. The M9 which I purchased about three years ago and showed terrible spots absolutely all the time was finally replaced after a year with a new model. Within 6 months the camera went back to the service station to Singapore which replaced the faulty sensor with a new which only took about 6 yes about 6 months to do. I received the camera back in March this year and never actually had the sensor cleaned. about 6 weeks ago a small line looking like a hair appeared on the sensor. The camera went back from Bali to Singapore to the service center which of course kept the camera with the explanation that the sensor is scratched. How is this possible when the sensor was never touched. I just received a note from Singapore that they will replace the sensor locally which will be done sometimes in November or December. Well nothing works in December anyhow and I probably will have the camera back sometimes next year. Just think about having the camera for three years, of which the camera spends two years in repair. Totally absolutely not acceptable. Well this marks my divorce with Leica. Yes the glass is certainly outstanding, but o good the cameras are.....I need a camera that I can depend on for my work and Leica definitely does not comes close to this expectations. The Mark 3 costs a lot less then 1/2 of the M240 and nobody can possible blow me a whistle that the colors of an M are twice as good......I now own a Mark three for over a year, and guess what I still have no spots on the sensor........ I am bitterly disappointed I guess its good bye then.............. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guido Posted October 7, 2013 Share #159 Posted October 7, 2013 I send the camera back to Hong Kong and received a almost full refund from the dealer minus $1000. Problem solved. The lesson for others to learn here is: don't buy a used M240 in Hong Kong around this time of the year Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shard Posted October 8, 2013 Share #160 Posted October 8, 2013 You bought the Leica M from Delon Cameras located in Harbour City? LOL. Good luck. They are a reseller. They buy from anybody, parallel importers, individuals etc and resell it, you probably got a used or demo camera that is being sold as new. Why would you buy from Delon when the Leica store is just next door? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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