Diglloyd:"...Leica typ M Usablity..."

[colonel]

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Lets remember he trashed the X-pro1 as lightroom took time to work with its raws.

 

He trashed the entire X-E1 system which he sent back as not working to spec., apparently he is the only person in the world to say this ?

 

He trashed the EOS-M as "worst design ever". funny as I thought is nicely made for a compact upgrader and seems to get review points only for the sluggish AF.

 

etc.

 

Over emotional trashing is normally done for market purposes.

 

I prefer Sean Reid, the rock solid benchmark of camera testing.

[Guido]

...apparently he is the only person in the world to say this ?

That by itself does not necessarily imply that he is wrong.

[colonel]

That by itself does not necessarily imply that he is wrong.

 

True

But they have sold 100k xtrans over the years with a lot of satisfied professionals that have dumped their DSLR gear.

[gpwhite]

after more than 4 months of use I agree with most part of his points

 

Me too, although the programming button thing seems at odds with the manual flow of an M. But different shooters like different options, and Leica is certainly attempting to broaden the market appeal of the M. (movies? Is it true that the M360P will have a built in cellphone?)

 

The big improvement in usability I enjoy on my M240 is the brighter, crisper RF. Shooting my new MM and "old" M240 together (well, you know what I mean), it takes two to three times the effort with MM to get equivalent focus precision of brilliant M240.

[cirke]

Me too, although the programming button thing seems at odds with the manual flow of an M. .

I'll do exactly what LLoyd Chamber will do with it , I shall add the horizon feature

[jaapv]

To me the improved rangefinder mechanism is the most pleasant surprise. Finally I can focus accurately near to infinity. :)

[wattsy]

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Bandwagon.

[keithlaban.co.uk]

The M240 is flawed and over priced and yet I look forward to receiving my own copy of the camera with an enthusiasm I would usually reserve for making images.

[sandro]

Sometimes I feel some jealousy toward my digital Leica M fellows in the LUF. At other times though, I feel blessed that I don't have the money to buy a digital M and can rely on several analogue Leica M bodies that I am very happy with. With those I don't have any of all the problems that some people continue to complain about.

Lex

[GabrielIndalecio]

I've been using the M 240 since April on my daily/weekly shooting activities as passionate Leica amateur photographer. Cleary M 240 is a big improvement from previous versions (I own a M9 for a while now) .. from a design POV there are specific areas for improvement but what really matter is how the owner (me/you) rate overall satisfaction .. and mine is High .. in an scale 1 to 5 is a 4.5 .. I'm expecting some of the software complaints will be fixed in future firmware releases .. Mechanically is a Germany made tool.

[thighslapper]

'The core problem is that I expect a luxury product to offer luxury performance free of irritants, not to make photography more difficult, not to make it more constrained, not to make it harder than is demonstrably possible with far less expensive cameras whose image quality is nearly as good'

 

..... I'm not sure that is the correct definition of luxury......

 

I cannot say that a single one of his 'issues' has in one jot detracted from the usability of the M240 and made it more difficult for me.

 

If he wants 101 bells and whistles and the usual CaNikon complexity to the point of permanent bafflement for old duffers like me then he is welcome to it.

 

Leica's virtue is simplicity.... and the consequent trade-offs are well worthwhile as far as I am concerned.

[zlatkob]

If he wants 101 bells and whistles and the usual CaNikon complexity to the point of permanent bafflement for old duffers like me then he is welcome to it.

 

But he doesn't want 101 bells and whistles, or a CaNikon.

[jaapv]

But he does complain that Leica stonewalls him and I am nasty enough to believe Leica has a good reason to do so.

[Guido]

I'm expecting some of the software complaints will be fixed in future firmware releases.

Yes, some complaints will be most certainly be fixed in future firmware releases... firmware releases of the M340, that is

[HV25]

'The core problem is that I expect a luxury product to offer luxury performance free of irritants, not to make photography more difficult, not to make it more constrained, not to make it harder than is demonstrably possible with far less expensive cameras whose image quality is nearly as good'

 

..... I'm not sure that is the correct definition of luxury......

 

I cannot say that a single one of his 'issues' has in one jot detracted from the usability of the M240 and made it more difficult for me.

 

If he wants 101 bells and whistles and the usual CaNikon complexity to the point of permanent bafflement for old duffers like me then he is welcome to it.

 

Leica's virtue is simplicity.... and the consequent trade-offs are well worthwhile as far as I am concerned.

 

+ 1

[Lacapino]

I have a M9, and two film M bodies. I love them. However a camera that freezes up, and would only come back to life once the battery was taken out and then reinserted?? This happening repeatedly, and he (Loyd) is not the only one saying this happens. Surely that's concerning?

 

The film Leicas could be taken seriously as War photographers tools, and the Leica mystique was built upon the M3, M2,and M4 s off all the legendary photographers, that could mostly always rely on the tool for the job

But I still doubt the Digital Leica's, my M 9 has frozen up on me , Off course one has more than one camera? Or do you? I hear Cartier Bresson only carried the one body with the one lens most of the time? I bet you he would have has some wonderful comment for Leica if his New M froze on him even once ...

 

makes me think Leica should really try and sort these niggles . I do not want another digital M that's temperamental.

 

Ordered my self an MP

[gpwhite]

But he does complain that Leica stonewalls him and I am nasty enough to believe Leica has a good reason to do so.

 

Jaap, Me thinks Leica does not like criticism, hence they stonewall him even though Lloyd criticizes all manufacturers. To put this another way in my American provincialism, are you aware of *any* USA reviewer that Leica supports with pre-release access or loaners? This cannot be a German manufacturer thing, as Zeiss pumps all sorts of pre-release gear through diglloyd.com. So, my guess is that Leica's good reason is either resentment of Zeiss' status (which is going to go up if/when the 55 f/1.4 Monster arrives that even Erwin Puts opines is off any chart), or just a general resentment of any criticism.

 

Oh, not to sound too provincial, let me point out that Apple resents any and all criticism of anything it ever did or thought of doing .

 

Peter

[jaapv]

Well, there is Sean Reid and Steve Huff and a whole group of unnamed North-American beta testers. In my experience Leica is quite responsive to user feedback as evidenced regularly on this forum. Steve, Sean, Dave Farkas and some other transatlantic gurus whose name I forgot were invited by Leica as "friends" at their Monochrom party.

Actually the grass-roots relationship between Leica and Zeiss is quite good. These firms share a small community; often families have some members working for one and some for the other. And the staff drink their beer together in the Kneipe in the evening.

Erwin Puts uses the Zeiss lab fot testing Leica lenses and Zeiss uses Leica cameras to tweak their lens designs for digital.

I think there is a different reason that they don't take him seriously.

[gpwhite]

Well, there is Sean Reid and Steve Huff and a whole group of unnamed North-American beta testers. In my experience Leica is quite responsive to user feedback as evidenced regularly on this forum.

 

Well, Jaap, at least we agree on the importance of the RF upgrade on the M240!

 

Having seen your special MM, , I can understand why you experience Leica as quite responsive to its users. But when I asked for a silver chrome MM, Leica USA told me the same thing as when I asked for replacement of my defective M9 battery charger = NO.

 

 

 

Peter

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[gpwhite]

Dave Farkas

.....

 

I think there is a different reason that they don't take him seriously.

 

Jaap, come on, David Farkas! He works for a Leica store. Objective reviews?

 

You may be right about a different reason; I do not know Lloyd beyond several e-mail exchanges, and I wonder if Leica really does either? The dismissal of the entirety of diglloyd.com's library of information, however, does not seem to me to be warranted. At least not on the basis of what I have learned from diglloyd.... no one source offers the gospel.

 

Peter