IkarusJohn Posted July 1, 2013 Share #1 Posted July 1, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm tempted to sell my M9-P. It's in immaculate condition, with a new sensor last year (low actuations). Why? because I'm not using it much (the Monochrom is permanently in my bag), and I'm reassessing what I do. The M (typ 240) isn't really me, so I'm thinking of going a bit mainstream and getting a D800E, with the new 80-400mm zoom, and 60mm macro. I get telephoto, AF & macro for a reasonable price, and I can sell it all again when Leica releases something more appealing. However, I would like to use my M mount lenses on the D800E if possible. Yes, I know the AF won't work, nor will the aperture control, and I'll have to stop down - I have already been through all that with the NEX (which I gave to my son). But, I get a full frame colour sensor, with the chance to use my M lenses, and I get video thrown in (not a biggee, but could be fun). Googling, I can't find a reference to M mount to Nikon F adapters. Nor is there anything recent on here. I did read somewhere that the register distance is different, so I may lose a stop. Can anyone assist? Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 Hi IkarusJohn, Take a look here Leica M Mount lenses on Nikon D800E?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
k-hawinkler Posted July 1, 2013 Share #2 Posted July 1, 2013 Well, you can adapt Nikon F lenses to the M and focus all the way to infinity. But not vice versa. Even if you had an adapter, with M lenses you would get only extreme close ups on a Nikon camera. R lenses though are a different matter. You would need to replace the lens mount. Leitax made a business of that. You would be better of with a Sony NEX-7 that has an APS-C sensor, so crop factor of 1.5. Because of the narrower angle of view of the APS-C sensor, the D800E that I have as well, would need around 57 MP to match the resolution of the NEX-7. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 2, 2013 Share #3 Posted July 2, 2013 Only at pixel level. If you view images on the same scale the resolution difference disappears or goes the other way around. By your calculation the D800 would need an Mp count of hundreds to match an iPhone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted July 2, 2013 Share #4 Posted July 2, 2013 The bottom line is that Nikon F-mount SLRs have a flange-to-image-plane distance of 46.5mm. That is hard-wired into the thickness of the body (to allow room for the swinging mirror). Even the cropped-sensor cameras use 46.5mm, to maintain compatability with the big-boy FX and film cameras of the past 54 years. Leica M lenses are designed to mount 27.8mm from the image plane. Putting them on a Nikon is equivalent to adding a 19.3mm (plus the depth of any adapter) extension tube behind them, resulting in a macro-only lens (won't focus beyond a few inches even set to the infinity mark). The same is true for any use of rangefinder lenses (in their native RF mounts) on SLR bodies - they will always be so far out of position that they are left with nothing but a macro focus range. Flange focal distance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Given that Nikon-F cameras and Leica M lenses have shared this world for 54 years, and over that whole time it has always been obvious that the latter could not function normally on the former (or it would have been done many times in that 54 years), I am curious as to why this question comes up over and over. Not to pick on you, John (since it does come up again and again). But you're convenient. I presume you have handled both Nikon F and Leica M cameras at some point or other, and noticed the difference in body thickness. What would make it enter your mind that there was any possibility that lenses designed for a ~1" thick camera would focus even remotely normally on a camera nearly 2" thick? I mean, it is like driving a 2-meter-wide car up to a 1-meter-wide garage and asking, "Is it possible to park this car in that garage?" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted July 2, 2013 Share #5 Posted July 2, 2013 BTW - there are ways to put a 2-meter-wide car in a 1-meter wide garage (or an M lens on an SLR) - but they require access to a chain saw.... Photographer modifies Canon 5D Mark II to mount Leica M lenses including legendary Noctilux Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted July 2, 2013 Share #6 Posted July 2, 2013 Hi Andy, Well, I think John asked a pertinent question. I asked myself the same question about 3 years ago when I was new to the Leica world. Believe me between M, V, and R lenses, M lens heads, short mounts, Visoflex, Bellows, Televits, register distance, and throat diameter it takes a while to find the right references on the Internet to sort it all out. For example, why can some R lenses be adapted to Canon cameras but not to Nikons and instead need to be outfitted with a new lens mount. Of course, in hindsight it's easy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted July 2, 2013 Share #7 Posted July 2, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Everything I own - M, LTM, R, Nikon F, Olympus OM - fits on a Fuji. I had a D700 and traded it in for an XE-1 and two lenses and have not looked back. The only Nikon SLR I own these days is an FM3a. The x-trans sensor particularly zings with a summicron or a sonnar, but also performs well with Nikon glass. Regards, Bill Sent from another Galaxy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted July 2, 2013 Share #8 Posted July 2, 2013 For example, why can some R lenses be adapted to Canon cameras but not to Nikons and instead need to be outfitted with a new lens mount. Again it's to do with the distance from the sensor/film plane to lens mount. Canon can allow for the thickness of an adaptor, the Nikon can't, but a specially machined replacement mount works. The Fuji Bill mentions has a shorter plane/mount distance than any LTM/M/SLR and therefore can take almost any lens with a suitable adaptor, which is essentially just creating the necessary distance between the Fuji mount and what would be the correct distance for the given lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shade Posted July 2, 2013 Share #9 Posted July 2, 2013 Unless you are prepared to cutdown (literally) the mounting distance of your Nikon, you are left with only the R lenses to use (in Leica brand). However, I would suggest going for a mirrorless such as Fuji instead to make full use of your current lenses. And yes this question does rise up over time, I guess some people have hopes to be able to use the M lenses on the dSLR sensors.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted July 2, 2013 Share #10 Posted July 2, 2013 Much as I hate to direct anyone to my old Flickr (ptui) account these days, this may help: UPDATED Fuji X-E1 and Legacy Lenses - a set on Flickr Leica and Nikon Lenses on X-E1 - a set on Flickr Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted July 2, 2013 Share #11 Posted July 2, 2013 Again it's to do with the distance from the sensor/film plane to lens mount. Canon can allow for the thickness of an adaptor, the Nikon can't, but a specially machined replacement mount works. The Fuji Bill mentions has a shorter plane/mount distance than any LTM/M/SLR and therefore can take almost any lens with a suitable adaptor, which is essentially just creating the necessary distance between the Fuji mount and what would be the correct distance for the given lens. Well, that was a rethorical question. Thanks anyway. Isn't the reason that bewteen a Leica R and Nikon F mount is only 0.5 mm difference, not enough metal to make a solid adapter? Also, the Sony E mount is only slightly larger than the Fuji X mount, so can adapt as well all my M, V, R, and F mount lenses. Of course, the Fuji offers very interesting technology as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill W Posted July 2, 2013 Share #12 Posted July 2, 2013 BTW - there are ways to put a 2-meter-wide car in a 1-meter wide garage (or an M lens on an SLR) - but they require access to a chain saw.... Photographer modifies Canon 5D Mark II to mount Leica M lenses including legendary Noctilux Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted July 2, 2013 Share #13 Posted July 2, 2013 A quandary for sure. If the Fuji weren't a crop sensor I would take that route. I would be more inclined to go for the Nikon I didn't love my M Lenses as much as I did. I think if it were me I would go for the M, despite it has things that aren't me. Given you can adapt zooms, macro's and from other brands too to it makes it, therefore, best of both worlds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted July 2, 2013 Share #14 Posted July 2, 2013 ...If the Fuji weren't a crop sensor I would take that route. ... To be fair, I used to feel the same. Thing is, it's not about the size of the sensor it's about the end result - it took me a long time to realise that. If everything else in the equation (handling, performance, image quality, optical quality) balances, the actual physical size of the sensor is of less importance. There is a pejorative aspect to the term "crop sensor" that results in a visceral dislike of the APS-C format. I suppose it is the same as when the 35mm format was tagged as "miniature" by those using medium and large format. A good big 'un will always beat a good little 'un (or as the petrolheads say, "there is no substitute for cubes") but, good as my full-frame Nikon was, it was actually buggerall use to me sitting in a bag at home because it was too damn heavy to lug around... Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted July 2, 2013 Share #15 Posted July 2, 2013 Yes I agree with you Bill, if the image quality is there then it's mostly a non issue. The Fuji sensor really is pretty solid. Though I am guessing one of the reasons John as the quandary is due to the fact he has a particular like for his Noctilux and some of the magic happens on the edges which will get cropped off on a smaller sensor, so defeating, or perhaps limiting the purpose somewhat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted July 2, 2013 Share #16 Posted July 2, 2013 The register distance is too long. You can adapt R lenses or visoflex lens heads in the short mount. 800 with new 60 is wonderful. In fact you may not come back. Previous version does not do so well at infinity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted July 2, 2013 Author Share #17 Posted July 2, 2013 Thanks for all your comments, guys. So, it really is impractical to use M mount lenses on F mount cameras, without engaging in trimming the mirror, and messing about with combinations of mounts, for what gain ... To be honest, I'm not looking for more gear to carry about - I would take one or the other. I was just musing about the possibility of using M glass for video and the odd colour shot on a D800. I really see the D800E as a better alternative to the M (typ240) - sorry to those who love their new M cameras. To me, it's a kludge and I'm not that confident that the next Leica release will be any better (I'm judging by the gulf between what many Leica owners clearly wanted, compared to what Leica delivered). The Monochrom is a high point in Leica design (the highest point after the M3). I would hold onto the M9-P, but you guys keep telling me that digital cameras are a poor investment, so I'd better sell it while it has some value, I guess. It's immaculate, with just under 6,000 actuations on a new sensor and Leica warranty until October 2014, so it is a good buy for someone. 800 with new 60 is wonderful. In fact you may not come back. Previous version does not do so well at infinity. What new 60? The 60 Nikkor-micro has been around for a while, and I have zero interest in an 800. The new 80-400 is apparently useable handheld, thanks to its electronics; the new 800 is half a metre long, and weighs over 4.5 kg The 80-400 is less than half that (just over 200mm long), and weighs a third! That said, it's huge compared to what I have. Oh, what to do ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McMaster Posted July 3, 2013 Share #18 Posted July 3, 2013 I really see the D800E as a better alternative to the M (typ240) - sorry to those who love their new M cameras. I sold my unloved D800E to get my M, it suits my needs far better and I took more photos in the first couple of days than I had in 8 months on the Nikon. Of course if you want/need long lenses things are different, but I did not feel like investing the required sum of money to get decent glass for a camera I did not enjoy using. john Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted July 3, 2013 Author Share #19 Posted July 3, 2013 Interesting comment, John. Can you elaborate? I just went down to the local shop and held the D800E in my hands and I was presently surprised by its size and weight - it felt smaller and lighter than my (now sadly gone) F5 and the 5DIII.* Why am I interested? Well, I use my Monochrom most of the time, and the alternative of long lenses, zoom, AF & video is somehow appealing as a colour alternative. As an aside, doesn't it seem that Leica has become very limited in what it offers? Leaving out rebadged Panasonics: X1 - fixed 35mm lens XV - 28-70 (equiv) zoom M - all manual primes, from 18 to 135 mm (I'm leaving the MATE & WATE out as they are not really zooms in the traditional sense) S - AF, all primes, but for one zoom Yet, looking at the catalogue of R lenses, there were some fantastic zooms, macros and tele lenses. Now, Leica makes two zooms - the XV and for the S. That is one very big hole. Edit - *The number of buttons, and what I suspect is a very complex and unwieldy menu system is of more concern. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macjonny1 Posted July 3, 2013 Share #20 Posted July 3, 2013 Why not MM for B&W and D800E for color? Great combo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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