Leica. Why such a half backed business plan?

[pico]

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Speaking of worthless comments.

 

I find your post above referencing the OP as a spoiled luxury consumer especially insulting. Shame on you.

 

I'm sure the OP can speak for himself.

 

I am a Leica fan, and have been for over thirty years. I am not an apologist for every decision they make. What exactly are you, except a troll?

 

Thirty years is short time for me.

 

Who's trolling? All you EVER post is complaints as if you were some kind of stockholder, and you are not. What's with you? Why do you take it so personally. If Leica is screwing up, move on like an adult. If you want to pounce on a loser, why not go somewhere that cares about the Hasselblad Lunar.

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[darylgo]

Leica spends millions to build a new boutique and gallery in Los Angeles, invites celebrities and photography luminaries from around the world, and at the grand opening party has how many M240s on hand for guests to see and try?

 

Zero.

 

They do have a M9 Titanium in the case with a 35mm Summilux FLE, beautiful camera.

 

Steve, wouldn't it be better for Leica to sell the M's to their customers rather than use the few inventory being produced to have displays? When I talk to the reps at the store they have had little time with the new M themselves because of scarcity.

[Guest Holy Moly]

Yes, we sometimes forget that Leica are actually just 3 gnomes who operate out of a tree house in the depths of the Black Forest and whittle everything they make from solid material with just a toothpick and a sharp stone.

 

The boss of the three is Alberich:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberich

[dwbell]

If you want to pounce on a loser, why not go somewhere that cares about the Hasselblad Lunar.

 

Such a place exists?

[spylaw4]

Such a place exists?

 

Somewhere.... over the rainbow....etc.etc.

[Dannybuoy]

I guess Leica knew that they might have a production backlog (knowing the long lead times for the M and the X Vario to get out the gate). Maybe they didn't order as many units from their suppliers so the investment wasn't so big initially? Also having excess accessories for a camera that is as rare as unicorn tears on the market could add greater focus on the shortfall and slow production times. Who knows.

[theno23]

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I can't imagine Jaguar or Maserati, for example, not having goods already sourced and lined up for customers to buy post the purchase of their car.

 

You can't even buy the M for goodness sake!

 

Clearly you've never tried to buy a Jaguar or Maserati soon after launch.

 

 

Worse still, try to buy a Aston Martin or Ferrari. AM are still delivering cars that were sold two years ago.

 

 

Small manufacturers means small manufacturing capacity, so a limited rate of goods. You can stockpile stock so you can (mostly) meet demand when you launch (this is what apple do). But if you have limited production lines it's expensive and slow.

 

 

Either your customers have a frustrating wait, after launch, or before. Tough call.

 

 

I don't see how even armchair CEOs find this difficult to understand. Anyone who been in the seat of the regular kind will recognise the problem instantly. It's not as if there's a solution with current manufacturing technology.

 

 

Maybe 3D printing will solve it (you can just rent more 3D printers) but it will be a few years before you can print something's as complex as a camera, let alone to Leica's standards.

[wlaidlaw]

I see a company called Gloxy is making third party extended life battery vertical grips for various DSLR's. These are priced at around £65 - £75, including two lithium batteries. Maybe we should ask them to investigate making a grip for the M240. At Leica's indicated price of £660 for the MF handgrip, it would leave Gloxy a fair bit of latitude to make a really nice grip at a tad under Leica's pricing :)

 

Wilson

[theno23]

I agree for the multi-function hand grip but the dumb hand grip and the R to M adapter are simple hunks of metal. Any half decent machine/metal stamping shop could turn them out after a couple of days spent making the CNC files and having the stamping dies for the base plate made by a toolmaker. It may not even be that complicated, as the base plate may be milled from a solid brass billet, rather than stamped, then it's off to the chromers/painters. I think the OP is correct, Leica really do need to learn the PPPPPP approach (Prior Planning Prevents P*** Poor Performance).

 

Wilson

 

It's pretty likely that the two grips are manufactured elsewhere (maybe assembled at Leica). Whoever does their machining has to tool up though, and they'll pass the cost on. They might be doing it themselves, but from what I've heard of the current factory, they don't have room.

 

 

Look at any Kickstarter project's timeline (which has a manufacturing component, e.g. the impossible project one) to see how many things can, and do, go wrong.

 

 

That said, it doesn't seem like Leica are doing a great job, just not worse than some others. I remember Nikon having accessory supply problems with new DSLRs as well.

[theno23]

I see a company called Gloxy is making third party extended life battery vertical grips for various DSLR's. These are priced at around £65 - £75, including two lithium batteries. Maybe we should ask them to investigate making a grip for the M240. At Leica's indicated price of £660 for the MF handgrip, it would leave Gloxy a fair bit of latitude to make a really nice grip at a tad under Leica's pricing :)

 

Wilson

 

£660! Ouch. I've got one of these on order, as I really wanted the GPS function, but that's steep. I was expecting £450 I think... not sure where that number came from though.

 

 

Definitely worth giving them a shout.

[wlaidlaw]

Clearly you've never tried to buy a Jaguar or Maserati soon after launch.

 

 

Worse still, try to buy a Aston Martin or Ferrari. AM are still delivering cars that were sold two years ago.

 

 

Small manufacturers means small manufacturing capacity, so a limited rate of goods. You can stockpile stock so you can (mostly) meet demand when you launch (this is what apple do). But if you have limited production lines it's expensive and slow.

 

 

Either your customers have a frustrating wait, after launch, or before. Tough call.

 

 

I don't see how even armchair CEOs find this difficult to understand. Anyone who been in the seat of the regular kind will recognise the problem instantly. It's not as if there's a solution with current manufacturing technology.

 

 

Maybe 3D printing will solve it (you can just rent more 3D printers) but it will be a few years before you can print something's as complex as a camera, let alone to Leica's standards.

 

The difference is that when your car does arrive, it will come with all the options you ordered at launch (well at least mine from German manufacturers always have). Even the spare parts for German cars work well. I ordered a part for my 1977 911 RSR from my local UK dealer. This part was out of stock in both UK and Germany. Within two days it had arrived from Porsche USA at my UK dealer at no additional cost to me.

 

I think all of us understand that Leica cannot suddenly employ hundreds of new folk to assemble M240's to meet the initial burst of demand. That does not excuse the failure to plan to have the simpler accessories available for the lucky folks like me, who have had their M240 for three months. This is especially true if they are being made by third party contractors.

 

This has happened time and again over the years with missing simple items like lens hoods, batteries and special size filters. This is a management failure more reminiscent of the British or Italian motor industries of the 1970's and not where a 21st century high tech German company should be. Someone really does need to wake up and smell the coffee. As a long term (over 50 years) Leica user, I am disappointed that past lessons do not seem to have been learned.

 

Wilson

[jaapv]

Clearly you've never tried to buy a Jaguar or Maserati soon after launch.

 

 

Worse still, try to buy a Aston Martin or Ferrari. AM are still delivering cars that were sold two years ago.

 

 

Except in Texas, it seems

[250swb]

Worse still, try to buy a Aston Martin or Ferrari. AM are still delivering cars that were sold two years ago.

snip

I don't see how even armchair CEOs find this difficult to understand. Anyone who been in the seat of the regular kind will recognise the problem instantly. It's not as if there's a solution with current manufacturing technology.

 

But Ferrari and Aston Martin are making cars, and at a predictable rate. The dealer networks are tied to the production line so expectations can be managed. So it is nothing to do with small capacity and the overall volume of production. It could be one car per day, or one hundred, the story for Aston and Ferrari is about consistency.

 

From the delivery stories from hopeful Leica owners it appears they are not making M camera's, or at least not nearly in the same volumes as the more sought after M9 on its launch in 2009. If you want to extend the analogy with small volume car production it is as if they make 100 in week one, then ten in week two, then 150 in week three, then another thirty in week four and another ten in week five etc. And in those low production weeks caused by poor management planning what happens to the labour force? They sit around twiddling their thumbs, those costs are passed on in future price rise's, future price rise's put customers off, they go somewhere else, the company fails. If the CEO can't see that coming they really shouldn't be CEO.

 

Steve

[iforum]

a bit of a pico nose thread

[jaapv]

Just a sec whilst I shoot over to the lobby to get popcorn, please.

[wlaidlaw]

£660! Ouch. I've got one of these on order, as I really wanted the GPS function, but that's steep. I was expecting £450 I think... not sure where that number came from though.

 

 

Definitely worth giving them a shout.

 

£660 is the current price on UK dealers websites. Obviously that includes 20% VAT.

 

Wilson

[Guest Gilgamesh]

Lets not get hung up on the car analogy shall we?

 

You bring a product to the market place, you announce it in September, with an affluent clientele and yet you don't provide the kit required to hold that product firmly, nor any ancillaries that have been bought in parallel to other similar products over the years. You know what the customer is going to want and you do, what? Nothing.

 

Instead you choose to leave it to other third parties to provide products to fill those gaping chasms that you already know exist. Not the best business plan I have even encountered.

 

The EVF is not even their own product, instead re-branding an older existing product to fulfil this role. So we buy the non-Leica branded item (on eBay for £130 even) and be done with it.

 

Any other company with this bizarrely inept attitude to the customer, you'd be unmoved were you to see fail it the global economy. Surely the role of a CEO is to be part soothsayer, to predict the future market place, to provide forecasts, to plan ahead?

 

Only of late, with the experience of the M, have I come be so critical of this German product. Now, fingers-out Leica and get a grip - pardon the pun!

[Stealth3kpl]

"Problem is that they create hand built niche products that don't have mass market supply chains. It's unfortunate but there's nothing that we can really do about it :-)"

 

Actually, I think we maybe can.

Start telling them what a company of this standing is expected to do in the second decade of the 21st century, .

 

What did they say?

Pete

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Guest Gilgamesh]

As if you expect an answer.

 

The point that is being made is that, collectively, the M digital experience is, and continues to be far from how it should be and yet, because it's photographic hallowed ground and an aspirational product, people seem to like blowing smoke up their own and other's back sides perpetually about owning an M this and an M that. It's a tool, nothing more.

 

I own it. It does not own me. That is why I have in the past, sold my old film 'Blads and M6 without a second thought. As a working photographer, they are tools, nothing more. That is why I am not so hung up on the brand. I loved racing my Ducatis over the years, but sold them when I wanted a change. Ditto my Lynsky titanium and Merida carbon mountain bikes. Lovely, but just tools to be used and sold when I moved onwards.

 

I know many simply can't bring themselves to part with life-affirming, aspirational "stuff". They are thus owned by this stuff in their lives. I have the polar opposite view.

 

Criticism should be levelled at an ineptly executed, half baked business plan more oft', we should expect more from this premium brand; a body you can't buy, a EVF that's quite frankly a joke, a hand grip, somewhere on the horizon, maybe, and so the list seems to go on.

 

Now, my soap box is creaking and my trusty eBay £350 road bike wants a new Strava segment KOM to add to its CV, so I must-away.

[jaapv]

May I suggest that maybe you are buying into the wrong brand? To continue your car analogy, some people are far happier buying a Toyota than a Ferrari. I would be I can tell you. Although, I would rather have a Morgan...Wait a second, four years waiting time wasn't it...?