luigi bertolotti Posted June 11, 2013 Share #1661 Posted June 11, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Leica have not not done anything wrong in designing this camera.... The mass hysteria generated by Leica's initial and subsequent hints says more about forum members' over-expectations than any of Leica's alleged shortcomings. dunk Touchè... ... to excuse me (and the many others) I can only point out that for next to all forum members speaking of M means to touch an iconic concept... who, additionaly, has been recently revamped with a significant introdution which, one more time, did confirm the value of that acronym... we have been fooled... I speculate that shouldn't they have used the M flagship name, and had used simply a tag like "wait 11 Jun for a new Leica Camera" this thread had been less than 50% full... whilst the impact on the whole market would haven't been different : for many photographers, M is a name as good as can be RX or GX or DP.... My sort of conclusion is that they preannounced a (probably) good camera to the public.. making at the same time a "bad joke" to their old faithful set of longtime customers... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 11, 2013 Posted June 11, 2013 Hi luigi bertolotti, Take a look here Mini M? [MERGED] AKA X-Vario. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
andybarton Posted June 11, 2013 Share #1662 Posted June 11, 2013 used simply a tag like "wait 11 Jun for a new Leica Camera" this thread had been less than 50% full... Agreed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les_Sismore Posted June 11, 2013 Share #1663 Posted June 11, 2013 And to think that a group of grown-up men (and women?) passed this around the table at their board meetings and collectively said "Yes!! Yes!! THIS will be one of our flagships - demonstrating how our heritage, innovation and technology can be distilled into the products we will rely on to carry our company to success in the second decade of the twenty first century." Are we witnessing just the next phase of "There is Leica here, but not as we know it"?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain Posted June 11, 2013 Share #1664 Posted June 11, 2013 It's amazing how many people have said that it's competitive . . . . but actually there are no other APS-c fixed zoom cameras on the market, and there was only one in the past (Sony R1). This arguement doesnt quite wash in that you can get compact APS-c cameras like the X-E1 with interchangeable lenses with a faster zoom of the same range for half the money. To add the restriction of having a fixed lens to make it more exclusive or unique simply isnt really valid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted June 11, 2013 Share #1665 Posted June 11, 2013 Let's hope that we can see some more sample files made with the X Vario asap so that we can give the IQ a thorough appraisal. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
krooj Posted June 11, 2013 Share #1666 Posted June 11, 2013 You know, the funny thing is that this camera would have piqued my interest had they offered a new line of interchangeable AF lenses that were exclusive to this form factor. All they had to do was throw in with the NEX/X-Mount ILC crowd. Heck, they could have even offered adapters for existing R and M mount lenses. Frustratingly, this could have been an interesting product. Oh well, good news is that Sony will have an NEX refresh later this summer, shortly followed by a Fuji update. This arguement doesnt quite wash in that you can get compact APS-c cameras like the X-E1 with interchangeable lenses with a faster zoom of the same range for half the money. To add the restriction of having a fixed lens to make it more exclusive or unique simply isnt really valid. 1/2? try closer to 1/3, and that X-E1+18-55 kit has to be one of the best bargains going right now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted June 11, 2013 Share #1667 Posted June 11, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Now the truth is out I'll miss this thread. But we can look forward to numerous 'reviews' all telling us what we already know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted June 11, 2013 Share #1668 Posted June 11, 2013 Touchè... ... to excuse me (and the many others) I can only point out that for next to all forum members speaking of M means to touch an iconic concept... who, additionaly, has been recently revamped with a significant introdution which, one more time, did confirm the value of that acronym... we have been fooled... I speculate that shouldn't they have used the M flagship name, and had used simply a tag like "wait 11 Jun for a new Leica Camera" this thread had been less than 50% full... whilst the impact on the whole market would haven't been different : for many photographers, M is a name as good as can be RX or GX or DP.... My sort of conclusion is that they preannounced a (probably) good camera to the public.. making at the same time a "bad joke" to their old faithful set of longtime customers... I agree too. And I have been very clear to differentiate in my posts between the marketing of this camera and the camera itself. I think they managed to annoy a good number of faithful customers, whilst at the same time not exciting the actual customers of this new camera. Why would you do that? Why even involve the "M crowd" at all is confusing to me. Hence leaving the M completely alone (as it has feck all to do with it anyway) and "teasing" (vomit) a "Maxi-X" would have been the sensible route. If the target as many here claim is X lovers who want a zoom, why not aim the pitch at them? It makes no sense from where I'm standing. It strangely reminds me of the "flash mob" action in the Leica hall at photokina where every employee "froze" at a certain time. It's just "trendy" ideas that simply don't marry with the brand as it is today. If they are actively trying to become less stuffy, more engaging, more broad reaching, they need better advice than that which they are getting at present I feel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecaton Posted June 11, 2013 Share #1669 Posted June 11, 2013 This arguement doesnt quite wash in that you can get compact APS-c cameras like the X-E1 with interchangeable lenses with a faster zoom of the same range for half the money. To add the restriction of having a fixed lens to make it more exclusive or unique simply isnt really valid. The Fuji goes to 55mm @ f4, the vario only to 46mm @ f6.4 so the Fuji is also more useful in therms of range with very effective IS on top of everything. So almost 1 1/2 stop advantage for lens speed, add another 2 stops for IS and 1-2 stops for better iso performance of the sensor. One stop advantage for not having to hold it arm`s length. And 3 stops advantage for price:eek:. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo.Battista Posted June 11, 2013 Share #1670 Posted June 11, 2013 I still can't find an official announcement on the Leica site. Time/date in GMT would have been helpful. Nearly June 12 here. Ah well, time to hit the sack and I'll check in tomorrow. No surprises anyway. I'm happy with the M9 and D-Lux 5 for digital, and the film Ms. Seems you need to wait till 15.00 (Berlin, Paris, Rome) time. Leica Store München - Brienner Strasse 7: leica-store-muenchen.de Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted June 11, 2013 Share #1671 Posted June 11, 2013 The Fuji goes to 55mm @ f4, the vario only to 46mm @ f6.4 so the Fuji is also more useful in therms of range with very effective IS on top of everything.So almost 1 1/2 stop advantage for lens speed, add another 2 stops for IS and 1-2 stops for better iso performance of the sensor. One stop advantage for not having to hold it arm`s length. And 3 stops advantage for price:eek:. No red dot though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted June 11, 2013 Share #1672 Posted June 11, 2013 Seems you need to wait till 15.00 (Berlin, Paris, Rome) time. Leica Store München - Brienner Strasse 7: leica-store-muenchen.de Are they getting the black T-shirts out of the cupboard? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brunom Posted June 11, 2013 Share #1673 Posted June 11, 2013 It's amazing how many people have said that it's competitive . . . . but actually there are no other APS-c fixed zoom cameras on the market, and there was only one in the past (Sony R1). Hi - I'm not sure of the exact sensor size, but I am quite sure that in the real world there's not much difference in output, but isn't the Canon G1-X such a camera, with a better lens specifications ? Bruno Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iforum Posted June 11, 2013 Share #1674 Posted June 11, 2013 Has that scent of Panasonic involvement it is typical of their zooms, but then I am probably wrong:p...ps I wonder what Leica's reaction will be to spill the beans Huff? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevelap Posted June 11, 2013 Share #1675 Posted June 11, 2013 Hi - I'm not sure of the exact sensor size, but I am quite sure that in the real world there's not much difference in output, but isn't the Canon G1-X such a camera, with a better lens specifications ?Bruno I believe the G1-X's sensor is 18.7 x 14mm, which is about 20% smaller than canon's APS-C sensor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo.Battista Posted June 11, 2013 Share #1676 Posted June 11, 2013 Has that scent of Panasonic involvement it is typical of their zooms, but then I am probably wrong:p You're surely wrong. Would be Panasonic, it would be a stabilized 14-35 f:2,8 on a m4/3 body with last generation sensors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brunom Posted June 11, 2013 Share #1677 Posted June 11, 2013 Dr. Rohde may be amazed at how many disparaging comments have been made about the Leica X Vario, but I am not. I believe the disappointment here is that for the very first time Leica have built a camera solely for the luxury market. Now we all know that Leica have a long history, going back over eighty years to the original gold plated Lexus cameras, of taking stock versions of production cameras and turning them into limited editions by the addition of some special script or finish or covering. I think that many dedicated Leica users look at a camera such as the “X2 Limited Edition Paul Smith” or the “M9-P Hermes” and chuckle softly to ourselves. Now however we have something completely new, namely a camera designed from the ground up for the luxury market and branded solely by “Leica”. It’s obvious from the decision to use an f/3.5-6.4 zoom lens that this camera is not aimed at professional photographers, or even high end amateurs. No, this camera is aimed squarely at people who want to set the camera on “P for Program” and click away. The luxury market does not want to buy V-Lux and D-Lux rebadged offerings, they want to spend more and now they can. For Leica's part not having to pay "Hermes" or "Paul Smith" or anyone else marketing royalties is simply icing on the cake, and additional profit to the bottom line. So what’s wrong with this approach? Simply that the decision to dedicate such a significant proportion of Leica’s resources to opening Leica stores in fashion areas around the world, and to stock them with Leica fashion cameras, does not bode well for the future direction of the company for those who value optical performance and IQ above all else. What's really wrong - is the 'missed opportunity' that Leica has allowed to occur. They could have made this camera with an M mount so that other lenses could be made for it in the future or legacy lenses used. They could also have made it FF with an R adapter, but no they chose this - which would still be only just half acceptable if the zoom had a decent aperture range. I only hope that the sensor is stunning and high ISOs can be used 'as standard' to compensate for the slow apertures. Bruno Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted June 11, 2013 Share #1678 Posted June 11, 2013 What's really wrong - is the 'missed opportunity' that Leica has allowed to occur. They could have made this camera with an M mount so that other lenses could be made for it in the future or legacy lenses used. They could also have made it FF with an R adapter, Bruno No they couldn't. That would mean designing an entirely new camera. With this type of design (fixed lens) the sensor and lens are essentially a single unit, the sensor being attached to the rear of the lens. Leica have taken the existing X platform and bolted a zoom lens on instead (almost certainly with a different sensor as well). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted June 11, 2013 Share #1679 Posted June 11, 2013 The Fuji goes to 55mm @ f4, the vario only to 46mm @ f6.4 so the Fuji is also more useful in therms of range with very effective IS on top of everything.So almost 1 1/2 stop advantage for lens speed, add another 2 stops for IS and 1-2 stops for better iso performance of the sensor. True, except for the ISO performance which should be on a par with the Fuji. The sensor chip is essentially the same, with Fuji using a different colour filter array (X-Trans rather than Bayer). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roydonian Posted June 11, 2013 Share #1680 Posted June 11, 2013 Leica have taken the existing X platform and bolted a zoom lens on instead (almost certainly with a different sensor as well). But what it seems they did not do was to bolt on a viewfinder - so I'll just have to keep using my Digilux 2. Best regards, Doug Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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