dwbell Posted May 12, 2013 Share #61 Posted May 12, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Any place left over for the subject? Completely user customisable. On my fuji set up there's less "interfering" things in the finder than with my M9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 12, 2013 Posted May 12, 2013 Hi dwbell, Take a look here Will Leica update to the VF-4 EVF?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
filzer Posted May 20, 2013 Share #62 Posted May 20, 2013 Seems to me that frankenfinders son is born. Leica *must* have known that oly will come out with a next gen VF. They are partners, and would want to stay the like. But they probably did not want to wait. I suppose there will be a possability to connect the M to the VF-4, maybe not even an update neccessary... It's logic, isn't it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tanks Posted May 20, 2013 Share #63 Posted May 20, 2013 Pretty pathetic that there is already an newer version of technology before Leica can ineptly produce a camera to go with it. ... That is standard for Leica. The LCD on the back of M9, MM, M-E was old technology in regards to resolution when they released the cameras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted May 20, 2013 Share #64 Posted May 20, 2013 Seems to me that frankenfinders son is born. Leica *must* have known that oly will come out with a next gen VF. They are partners, and would want to stay the like. But they probably did not want to wait. I suppose there will be a possability to connect the M to the VF-4, maybe not even an update neccessary... It's logic, isn't it? I'm afraid your "logical" conclusion is based on some assumptions that we don't have in evidence. Good wishful thinking though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darylgo Posted May 20, 2013 Share #65 Posted May 20, 2013 That is standard for Leica. The LCD on the back of M9, MM, M-E was old technology in regards to resolution when they released the cameras. Leica did not put a light meter into an M camera until well after many other manufacturers had been doing this for years. Cameras are not unlike smart phones today, as soon as you incorporate one technology it is quickly surpassed by more advanced or next generation technology. Re: VF-2, Leica had to choose a technology and proceed knowing full well that newer is ever present. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted June 8, 2013 Share #66 Posted June 8, 2013 Cameras are not unlike smart phones today, as soon as you incorporate one technology it is quickly surpassed by more advanced or next generation technology. Re: VF-2, Leica had to choose a technology and proceed knowing full well that newer is ever present. Actually, the viewfinder is not "incorporated" technology. Now I wonder how long will it take for the firmware upgrade to be released, as [i guess] that is all we are talking about (and yes, of course the price will be doubled, but that is easily implemented ). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 8, 2013 Share #67 Posted June 8, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) That is standard for Leica. The LCD on the back of M9, MM, M-E was old technology in regards to resolution when they released the cameras.Not that there was any "new technology" available in that LCD size when they released the cameras, not even at the present time afaik, but never matter... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darylgo Posted June 8, 2013 Share #68 Posted June 8, 2013 Actually, the viewfinder is not "incorporated" technology.Now I wonder how long will it take for the firmware upgrade to be released, as [i guess] that is all we are talking about (and yes, of course the price will be doubled, but that is easily implemented ). Oh sure, get technical on me. It's reassuring to know there is a path to upgrade the evf, despite being so un-Lieca to do so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 8, 2013 Share #69 Posted June 8, 2013 As it won't change the camera's refresh rate i don't quite see the point of upgrading the EVF but i'm perhaps missing something here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share #70 Posted June 8, 2013 As it won't change the camera's refresh rate i don't quite see the point of upgrading the EVF but i'm perhaps missing something here. With the new Epson LCD screen the pixel/dot density is at about the resolving power of the human eye, so it would appear sharper than the existing screen. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookedart Posted June 8, 2013 Share #71 Posted June 8, 2013 Let me add my two cents in here... The Olympus VF-2 was introduced back with the Olympus E-P2 back in 2010. It has a resolution of 800x600 with a refresh rate of 60fps (60hz), a magnification of 0.58x, comes in black and silver, has diopter correction, a replaceable eyecup (confusingly named the EP-9), and has no shoe lock. This is the model identical to Leica's EVF that can be used on the Leica M240. It looks like this: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6MS8uBHKkRA/UbOU5PcABjI/AAAAAAAAFNU/MlC6cXeOWBY/s1600/4130024425_38dde2302b.jpg The Olympus VF-3 is a smaller and cheaper version of the VF-2. It has a 640x480 resolution, comes in silver only, has diopter correction, non-replaceable eyecup, and has a shoe lock. Looking at this particular post it seems as though the VF-3 is not compatible with the Leica M 240: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/275000-vf-2-viewfinder.html Specifically nothing that: "The shoe is about two, three milimeters too long, so the electronics don't get contact." I have a feeling that the electronics do make contact, but that this EVF is just not functional. Similarly to the VF-4, the VF-3 requires a firmware update on the body side to make it compatible: "the PEN E-P2, E-PL1, E-PL2 and XZ-1 require a firmware update to properly operate the VF-3." This could possible have something to do with the fact that the Olympus bodies eventually upgraded the Data port spec to be labelled "A-P2" - the original Olympus E-P2 did not have this labelling, and I have a feeling the Leica M240 is more in spec with the data port that shipped on EP-2. The VF-3 looks like so: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-HjsUJLyeCu8/UbOVH8mG2VI/AAAAAAAAFNc/rKB9Q9NpaEE/s1600/url.jpg This leads me to the new VF-4, which has a 2360k dot screen with a latency of 32ms, 0.74x magnification, comes in black only, has diopter correction, doesn't appear to have a replaceable eyecup, has an eye sensor, and a shoe lock. This model currently is only compatible with the E-P5, with pretty much every other Olympus model requiring a firmware update to work with this EVF (which I don't think has been released yet). Like others have said, unless Leica releases a brand new EVF using this same hardware, it is doubtful that Leica will update the firmware to be compatible with this particular viewfinder. The fact that the VF-3 does not work either doesn't bode well for the VF-4 working. The VF-4 looks like this: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-utL-GDVpbBE/UbOVV0zWK4I/AAAAAAAAFNk/o6Qvk8JxIHM/s1600/url.png One thing to note is on more recently Olympus bodies it is possible to change the quality/refresh rate to be 120fps with a lower resolution. This makes the viewfinder feel more responsive but at the peril of sharpness, not an ideal solution for a manual focus camera. It may not even be possible, however, depending on the speed of the sensor readout on the M240, for Leica to enable this option - we only know that the sensor is capable of 30fps at VGA resolution only (for video recording) - it stands to reason that the sensor itself may only be capable of 60fps at a maximum, and probably more likely 30fps. I think this is the spec that is causing people to complain about the lag on the EVF - the sensor refresh rate and latency is just not fast enough to feed the EVF. The comments about the degree of rolling shutter on video footage solidify the fact that the sensor just doesn't have a fast readout. So even if the VF-4 is made compatible eventually, I don't know that the EVF spec is the thing that will reduce the lag you are seeing... the main potential advantage is that Leica may be able to have a higher res display. Personally I am looking forward to using the VF-2 on the Leica M240, especially with wider angle lenses like the 21mm Summilux - EVF lag is still faster than having to use two different optical finders to frame and focus your picture. Dpreview did note of the VF-2: "despite its lower resolution and magnification is still a very decent finder (it's effectively the same as the E-M5's EVF)." I would agree with this assessment - I don't personally think the VF-4 adds that much value, other than the locking shoe (which is admittedly a major omission on the VF-2). I've used Sony's OLED evfs, as well as the Fuji EVFs, and I still find Olympus' VF-2 to be competitive with them. I'm sure this is why Leica chose this finder for both the X2 and the M. Once Leica decides to ship me my M240 I will gladly try all three finders with it (I own both the VF-2 and VF-3, and would gladly try the VF-4 out). I can see Leica eventually releasing a new EVF with a new camera though, such as the X Vario. In that event I could potentially see Leica updating firmware on the M and the X2 to take advantage of this. That is a lot of ifs, however, and features like the eye sensor and fast refresh rate might never work anyways. They might not even be able to take advantage of the higher resolution! As always it is most prudent to judge whether or not what is currently being offered will suffice and assume that Leica won't update the evf until the next M refresh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macjonny1 Posted June 8, 2013 Share #72 Posted June 8, 2013 Does anyone really think that Leica is going to provide a firmware update to work with the new Oly EVF? If so, do you see a track record of Leica providing timely updates even for issues with their own hardware much less 3rd party compatibility? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
-ph- Posted June 8, 2013 Share #73 Posted June 8, 2013 The resolution bump of the Olympus viewfinder was not really a surprise. I would be heavily disappointed if Leica was not "in the loop" with the development of the new version and would not upgrade to it eventually. Perhaps even they are going to offer a more custom version of it which would justify the price differential to the Olympus one a bit more. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted June 8, 2013 Share #74 Posted June 8, 2013 Does anyone really think that Leica is going to provide a firmware update to work with the new Oly EVF? I agree. The better question may be, does anyone really think Leica is going to release any firmware updates? They seem to have gone dark in this area. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tanks Posted June 8, 2013 Share #75 Posted June 8, 2013 I agree. The better question may be, does anyone really think Leica is going to release any firmware updates? They seem to have gone dark in this area. Didn't they just release a Monochrom firmware update? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macjonny1 Posted June 8, 2013 Share #76 Posted June 8, 2013 Didn't they just release a Monochrom firmware update? Yes, it is out of beta now 9 months after release. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted June 8, 2013 Share #77 Posted June 8, 2013 Didn't they just release a Monochrom firmware update? Sorry, I stand corrected. I do think that in about a year Leica may be well settled into there new facility and had a chance to get organized. I am hoping it will be a different company. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted June 13, 2013 Share #78 Posted June 13, 2013 Steve Huff says: June 13, 2013 at 10:03 am Does not work and Leica is not going to release a FW update so a new Olympus branded EVF will work on their camera. No way no how. The only way it will ever work on the M or X is if Leica releases their own version of the VF-4, meaning, a VF-4 with the Leica name on it. If they do this then it will be with a FW update. "If they do this then it will be with a FW update.... .....and cost at least twice the price, naturally." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted June 14, 2013 Share #79 Posted June 14, 2013 "If they do this then it will be with a FW update.... .....and cost at least twice the price, naturally." Yes, but then again the Olympus VF-4 will most likely work as well. The VF-2 is now $199 in US, a no-brainer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pastor_chuck Posted June 27, 2013 Share #80 Posted June 27, 2013 I just got an X Vario and am wrestling at spending another $200 for the VF2 or wait. I really like the specs on the VF4 but I assume it won't work (presently) with my new camera. Has anyone heard anything with regard to this camera and the VF 4? CSB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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