Thomas Chen Posted May 7, 2013 Share #501 Posted May 7, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I took 260+ images at a steam fair today and the colour is spot on. Even skin tones are ok . Would you please post some files about the same scene before and after tweak. Thanks a lot. Thomas Chen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 7, 2013 Posted May 7, 2013 Hi Thomas Chen, Take a look here M Color. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
k-hawinkler Posted May 7, 2013 Share #502 Posted May 7, 2013 My own M finally arrived last week, and the first thing I did was to create a dual-illuminant profile for Camera Raw/Lightroom using a Gretag-Macbeth ColorChecker and the Adobe DNG Profile Editor. In Camera Raw, there are two default profiles available for the M: 'Embedded,' and 'Adobe Standard.' The former is totally unusable. The latter is much better—pretty good actually but still not quite there, so I'm dissatisfied with either. My home-made profile now is a subtle but significant improvement over 'Adobe Standard,' so I am happy with my M colours for now. I think every user of Adobe Lightroom or Adobe Photoshop & Bridge & Camera Raw should have one of those ColorCheckers. They come in several formats—I have the traditional A4-size 24-patch ColorChecker, as shown above, and I consider buying the small ColorChecker Passport as well. Do not confuse these with the DataColor products which look similar but are not compatible with the Adobe DNG Profile Editor which is free software (for Mac/for Win). I believe the DataColor products (or other brands) come with their own software. With such a standardised colour target you can create your own profiles for your digital cameras and avoid most colour problems easily. Thanks. Would you be willing to share your dual-illuminant profile? I am still waiting for my M and would like to play with some of the posted DNG files. If sharing the dual-illuminant profile doesn't make technically sense, could you please explain why. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted May 7, 2013 Share #503 Posted May 7, 2013 Thanks.Would you be willing to share your dual-illuminant profile? I am still waiting for my M and would like to play with some of the posted DNG files. If sharing the dual-illuminant profile doesn't make technically sense, could you please explain why. K-H, If you look in my public dropbox, there are various named and described profiles including narrow range and wide range dual illuminance profiles in there. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/n8ktnjd30daqcsc/erfebIraHe Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted May 7, 2013 Share #504 Posted May 7, 2013 K-H, If you look in my public dropbox, there are various named and described profiles including narrow range and wide range dual illuminance profiles in there. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/n8ktnjd30daqcsc/erfebIraHe Wilson Wilson. Many thanks. I got your files now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted May 7, 2013 Share #505 Posted May 7, 2013 K-H, If you look in my public dropbox, there are various named and described profiles including narrow range and wide range dual illuminance profiles in there. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/n8ktnjd30daqcsc/erfebIraHe Wilson Wilson, Many thanks. I stored the .dcp files in "/Users/[your username]/Library/Application Support/Adobe/CameraRaw/CameraProfiles/" after enabling "Show hidden and system files" with TinkerTool. I can now use your Camera Profiles in CS6. Is this the correct place where to store these files? Also, are these now accessible from LR5 beta as well? Thanks again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted May 7, 2013 Share #506 Posted May 7, 2013 Wilson, Many thanks. I stored the .dcp files in "/Users/[your username]/Library/Application Support/Adobe/CameraRaw/CameraProfiles/" after enabling "Show hidden and system files" with TinkerTool. I can now use your Camera Profiles in CS6. Is this the correct place where to store these files? Also, are these now accessible from LR5 beta as well? Thanks again. K-H, They should show up in LRx. If they don't, run "Update DNG and Metadata" from the photo menu, shut down and restart LR. They should then show up. This is what Bill Gates used to call a "Featurette" on Windows programs i.e. an odd glitch. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted May 7, 2013 Share #507 Posted May 7, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Wilson, Many thanks. I stored the .dcp files in "/Users/[your username]/Library/Application Support/Adobe/CameraRaw/CameraProfiles/" after enabling "Show hidden and system files" with TinkerTool. I can now use your Camera Profiles in CS6. Is this the correct place where to store these files? Also, are these now accessible from LR5 beta as well? Thanks again. Correct place. Restart LR once they're in place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Chen Posted May 7, 2013 Share #508 Posted May 7, 2013 Hi everyone, ....showing a wrong color reproduction, especially skin tones..., The issue of skin tone probably cannot be easily solved, that's the reason why some Japan-made cameras features special "scene for skin" setting. And the perception toward skin tone is also culture dependent. The attachments show skin tone of both Caucasian and Asian faces. Are the skin tones OK? Thomas Chen Angor Wat-tourist.pdf Baby Face.pdf Granddad with son(Brygen).pdf Old couple.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted May 7, 2013 Share #509 Posted May 7, 2013 The issue of skin tone probably cannot be easily solved, that's the reason why some Japan-made cameras features special "scene for skin" setting. And the perception toward skin tone is also culture dependent. The attachments show skin tone of both Caucasian and Asian faces. Are the skin tones OK? Thomas Chen Thomas, Capture One has a very good skin tones tool but that depends on the base profile being somewhere near right, which at the moment, it is not. I keep hoping for an update. I am participating in a Phase One "webinar" tomorrow, so I am going to bring up the poor M240 profile. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted May 7, 2013 Share #510 Posted May 7, 2013 Thomas, Using PDF files can give odd results as there is no colour space assigned. However, those all look a bit too pink/red to me, viewed on a calibrated monitor. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted May 7, 2013 Share #511 Posted May 7, 2013 My home-made profile now is a subtle but significant improvement over 'Adobe Standard,' so I am happy with my M colours for now. Update: I am not perfectly happy just yet. There's still room for improvement. In particular, colours still are somewhat over-saturated, mostly green. But I'm confident that I'm going to be happy in a couple of days, after some more tweaking the profile. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Chen Posted May 7, 2013 Share #512 Posted May 7, 2013 Thomas, Using PDF files can give odd results as there is no colour space assigned. However, those all look a bit too pink/red to me, viewed on a calibrated monitor. Wilson Wilson, Thanks a lot for comments. I will register in Dropbox and send you RAW files. Another image, is the skin tone in this one better or worse than the previous batch? Thomas Chen Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/203015-m-color/?do=findComment&comment=2316270'>More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 7, 2013 Share #513 Posted May 7, 2013 It is virtually impossible to judge skin tones on miniblobs of faces, Thomas. You really need full-scale portraits. As is your baby portrait. I find it slightly too magenta. But that may well not be an AWB or profile problem, but IR contamination. Baby skin can be strongly IR reflective. An IR filter can be useful. (see the other thread just above this one) I doubt that the M will be much different from the M9 in that respect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted May 7, 2013 Share #514 Posted May 7, 2013 Wilson, Thanks a lot for comments. I will register in Dropbox and send you RAW files. Another image, is the skin tone in this one better or worse than the previous batch? Thomas Chen Thomas, You would be better posting crops of TIFF's or JPEG's, so I can see how your profile is working. A DNG will not tell a lot on its own. We all know that the M "out of camera imagery" is "work in progress". However if you set up decent profiles or borrow from someone else, the DNG's can be converted into something that is very usable. If you look further up this thread, you will find the address of my Dropbox, which has a number of different profiles to use in ACR or Lightroom. I am sure others will be posting more sophisticated/better profiles in due course (are you listening Olaf), maybe using one of the wider gamut charts with more than 24 swatches. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 7, 2013 Share #515 Posted May 7, 2013 The issue of skin tone probably cannot be easily solved, that's the reason why some Japan-made cameras features special "scene for skin" setting... Little progs like iCorrect may help as well. They don't replace a good manual WB of course but they can provide more pleasing results than poor or mediocre AWBs. http://tinyurl.com/cagasjw http://tinyurl.com/d49vkoq Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
don daniel Posted May 7, 2013 Share #516 Posted May 7, 2013 Update: I am not perfectly happy just yet. There's still room for improvement. In particular, colours still are somewhat over-saturated, mostly green. But I'm confident that I'm going to be happy in a couple of days, after some more tweaking the profile. Pull down Saturation of Green Primary in Lightroom in addition to your profile. This reduces saturation also in blue and red. If you create your own profile only with color checker you can still get over-saturated skin tones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Chen Posted May 8, 2013 Share #517 Posted May 8, 2013 Little progs like iCorrect may help as well. They don't replace a good manual WB of course but they can provide more pleasing results than poor or mediocre AWBs.http://tinyurl.com/cagasjw http://tinyurl.com/d49vkoq Thanks a lot for advice. Is iCorrect an app for Apple Aperture? Thomas Chen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Chen Posted May 8, 2013 Share #518 Posted May 8, 2013 Thomas, ..if you set up decent profiles or borrow from someone else, the DNG's can be converted into something that is very usable. If you look further up this thread, you will find the address of my Dropbox, which has a number of different profiles to use in ACR or Lightroom. I am sure others will be posting more sophisticated/better profiles in due course (are you listening Olaf), maybe using one of the wider gamut charts with more than 24 swatches. Wilson Wilson, Thanks for advice. As a matter of fact I've downloaded the DCP and DNG you offered, however, not understand what is "dual-liiminant profile" and its function until today as I just acquired PS CS6 in early March. Changing camera profile is quite interesting. I'm studying hard to catch up and will make a practice to gain hand-on experience. I know Olaf's adjustment in this thread. Perhaps I need to read some articles in this thread again to refresh myself. Thomas Chen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted May 8, 2013 Share #519 Posted May 8, 2013 Thomas, It is a bit beyond the scope of this forum to explain how a dual illuminance profile works. This is a good introduction X-Rite ColorChecker Passport Dual Illuminant Profiles - Part 1 Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Chen Posted May 8, 2013 Share #520 Posted May 8, 2013 It is virtually impossible to judge skin tones on miniblobs of faces, Thomas. You really need full-scale portraits.As is your baby portrait. I find it slightly too magenta. But that may well not be an AWB or profile problem, but IR contamination. Baby skin can be strongly IR reflective. An IR filter can be useful. (see the other thread just above this one) I doubt that the M will be much different from the M9 in that respect. Mr. Jaapv, You are right. Full-scale portait serves better in dealing with tone skin issue. So far as what I've seen on-line, the best resource to see portrait by M240 is Jono Slack's excellent work including "Faces in China" as well as "Venice with M240" album in his site. There is appreciable red glow for skin tone in some images in the "Faces in China", that I'm sure. By the way, I read from other thread that your are using Eizo and NEC monitor, are they 10-bit color-depth renabled ones? Thanks, Thomas Chen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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