01af Posted April 27, 2013 Share #261 Posted April 27, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) ... and the use of 01af's M9 setting as as a starting point for the M240 ... Wow! I am surprised that M users find my M9 settings useful. This seems to indicate that the M's colours aren't too far away from the M9's. In the M9, the reds are too magenta and the blues are totally, uh, radioactive. And generally, the saturations are way over the top. Seems the M basically is the same, more or less. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 27, 2013 Posted April 27, 2013 Hi 01af, Take a look here M Color. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
sandymc Posted April 27, 2013 Share #262 Posted April 27, 2013 What this needs (to repeat myself from earlier ) is not just an image from an M, but two images: a) of a scene with at least a grey card, preferably a GM24 chart in it, so we can get an accurate white balance for both, from both an M and another camera that's doing a better color rendition. Then we have facts. Until then, we're debating opinions. Sandy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yarosuav Posted April 27, 2013 Share #263 Posted April 27, 2013 After one month of shooting with my M I have no problems with colors it delivers. I actually like the skin tones a lot (my subjects are mostly Caucasian). I do use WhiBal card most of the time so can't really comment on Auto WB. It's my first Leica though so I don't have experience with M9 or M8 and colors they produced. I come from Nikon system that I used for years plus one year with an X100. In fact I find myself tweaking the colors in my M shots less than I did with the Nikons and the Fuji, but that may be because I only started to use the WhiBal card consistently with the Leica. I also always use the Adobe Standard profile as opposed to Embedded - but that's a personal preference I guess. There's something with the reds in the Embedded profile that I don't like. Also, I haven't seen Kristian Dowling complain about skin tones his M produces and the video he posted a few days ago with behind the scenes shots from a fashion event had a lot of models in it and looked great... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted April 27, 2013 Share #264 Posted April 27, 2013 Another exciting instalment of M9 v M240 comparisons: SKIN TONES !!! http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/278105-comparison-m9-m240-7.html#post2385747 More fuel to add on the fire...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandymc Posted April 27, 2013 Share #265 Posted April 27, 2013 White balance is wildly out for M240 tungsten shot. Is that with the Adobe profile in PhotoShop, or the embedded profile, and does it improve if you use embedded? Sandy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
don daniel Posted April 27, 2013 Share #266 Posted April 27, 2013 Well, in my opinion it's not necessary to sell the camera. O1af's calibration works very well with the M9, but not with the M. Here is my version of the dng-file linked above. This was done in Lightroom. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted April 27, 2013 Share #267 Posted April 27, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well done... ... this confirms my opinion that skintone is simply a problem to manage (to learn to...) , NOT an issue that can throw away M from my perspective... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted April 27, 2013 Share #268 Posted April 27, 2013 What this needs (to repeat myself from earlier ) is not just an image from an M, but two images: a) of a scene with at least a grey card, preferably a GM24 chart in it, so we can get an accurate white balance for both, from both an M and another camera that's doing a better color rendition. Then we have facts. Until then, we're debating opinions. Sandy Yes yes yes yes yes. Please! (For me one in "tungsten" one in 5500K would be ideal) Sensors behave differently at different WBs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl G Posted April 27, 2013 Share #269 Posted April 27, 2013 More fuel to add on the fire...... The time, effort and care you have put into that thread and numerous photo comparisons have hardly added fuel. They have completely quenched the fire and subsequently urinated on the ashes in my own opinion. Tremendous thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted April 27, 2013 Share #270 Posted April 27, 2013 I received my M(240) on the same day as a good friend of mine in Hong Kong, who is a longtime Leica users and professional photographer. Between the two of use we shot nearly 12,000 images in the course of a month, and of those the vast majority, roughly 90%, had colour issues. When we inquired of Leica about our observations concerning the WB and colour issues with the M(240) a reply was received stating that the company was well aware of the problems and that they were working on a solution, although it would not be incorporated in the next firmware upgrade. If you shoot blue skies and green fields, or still life shots of fruit on tables, or even flowers in the garden then you may be very happy with the M(240) and the colours out of camera. If you regularly shoot people I believe you will be less happy. If you have lots of time to process a few dozen, or even hundred images in post then the M(240) is OK. If you have thousands then the slowdown and increased pp time is going to be a major problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted April 27, 2013 Share #271 Posted April 27, 2013 Stephen, would you have by chance a DNG file to upload showing the skin tone issue you're complaining about? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted April 27, 2013 Share #272 Posted April 27, 2013 I received my M(240) on the same day as a good friend of mine in Hong Kong, who is a longtime Leica users and professional photographer. Between the two of use we shot nearly 12,000 images in the course of a month, and of those the vast majority, roughly 90%, had colour issues. Hi Stephen Shooting AWB . . or Daylight . . .I've sent you a PM All the best Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted April 27, 2013 Share #273 Posted April 27, 2013 ...When we inquired of Leica about our observations concerning the WB and colour issues with the M(240) a reply was received stating that the company was well aware of the problems and that they were working on a solution, although it would not be incorporated in the next firmware upgrade. If you shoot blue skies and green fields, or still life shots of fruit on tables, or even flowers in the garden then you may be very happy with the M(240) and the colours out of camera. If you regularly shoot people I believe you will be less happy. If you have lots of time to process a few dozen, or even hundred images in post then the M(240) is OK. If you have thousands then the slowdown and increased pp time is going to be a major problem. Ok... that's a good explanation : I am never in such situation and can understand thet it can be annoying that a new (costly) camera, even at 1st FW release, proves not to be apt for a hard job with time restrictions. But if THIS is the problem, I tend, for myself, to see it in a not dramatic perspective... they have admitted the issue and declared a fix in firmware... after all, a good progress vs. the UVIR story on M8... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 27, 2013 Share #274 Posted April 27, 2013 Yeah - the M should have been as ready for prime time as the Boeing 787 when hitting the market.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted April 27, 2013 Share #275 Posted April 27, 2013 I'm waiting for the 787.2. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted April 27, 2013 Share #276 Posted April 27, 2013 I'm waiting for the 787 Monochrom version. You won't even be able to see it in overnight flights. It might have trouble in sunlight though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted April 28, 2013 Share #277 Posted April 28, 2013 I received my M(240) on the same day as a good friend of mine in Hong Kong, who is a longtime Leica users and professional photographer. Between the two of use we shot nearly 12,000 images in the course of a month, and of those the vast majority, roughly 90%, had colour issues. When we inquired of Leica about our observations concerning the WB and colour issues with the M(240) a reply was received stating that the company was well aware of the problems and that they were working on a solution, although it would not be incorporated in the next firmware upgrade. If you shoot blue skies and green fields, or still life shots of fruit on tables, or even flowers in the garden then you may be very happy with the M(240) and the colours out of camera. If you regularly shoot people I believe you will be less happy. If you have lots of time to process a few dozen, or even hundred images in post then the M(240) is OK. If you have thousands then the slowdown and increased pp time is going to be a major problem. Could you post Leica's email back to you stating that they are aware of the color problem and that it would not be in the next firmware update? I bet you don't have this. Also, could you please post one of these Asian skin tone DNGs that you can't show to Asians because they are very sensitive to the color of their skin. My friend and Pediatrician was laughing about your post the other day and she would like to see how bad the skin tone is from these pictures you have taken in China. She is from China. I shot a picture of her, Tan, the other day and she saw it on the back of the M LCD and actually liked it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidigital Posted April 28, 2013 Author Share #278 Posted April 28, 2013 Orange peoples of the world unite! Rick and LCT don't believe that you exist. By the way, I'm the one who made the remark about skin tone sensitivity. But, I know Stephen and have seen some of his shots and can confirm that he's come into contact with a few other orange Asian civilizations further to the north of the Philippines. Yes, these are DNGs. And yes they can be adjusted to almost where they need to be in post with a white balance correction and color corrections. But, the point that I brought up at the beginning of the thread was that it is an issue. And, for those who shoot more than they post, white balance and color correcting hundreds of images a day that are so far off is a task that makes you want to beat your head against the wall. Especially if you are expecting these things to be ironed out before release. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/203015-m-color/?do=findComment&comment=2309078'>More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted April 28, 2013 Share #279 Posted April 28, 2013 Look, you have an M240 and think it's perfect. Great. For me this is all about time needed in post. The camera has AutoWB issues, and I shoot in RAW with AutoWB so I can adjust in post. I don't have time to shoot a WB card for every scene. I don't have the Leica response in front of me but to paraphrase (again) Leica is aware of the AutoWB problems and are working on a solution, although the next firmware upgrade will be bug fixes. I will post the exact text after the shoot today. I realize that posting images of skin tones is an invitation into subjectivity, and this has already been done with lots of examples next to much more accurate renderings from Fuji, Sony and iPhones on the Facebook M240 group. Can the WB and colour problems be fixed? Sure. Does it take longer than it should? IMHO, yes. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/203015-m-color/?do=findComment&comment=2309082'>More sharing options...
Rick Posted April 28, 2013 Share #280 Posted April 28, 2013 Kurt, your posted pictures are too warm (yellow). Cut the color temp down and they won't look so yellow. Why is this so hard? Is the color (WB) correct out of this camera? No. Is the color correct from the camera profile? No. But, if you post a DNG it can be made to look pleasing. Also, will Leica release a firmware update? Sure they will. And, that will make it all a lot easier for everyone. But, it won't mean that the bayer color filters were designed wrong or that the camera has bad color. I know this is passive aggressive, but I like a lot of your pictures. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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