bybrett Posted March 25, 2013 Share #41 Posted March 25, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) After two years of saving and waiting I just made a deposit for the M-E and a 50 Summilux. I will go and pick up the package on Monday Lots of training ahead of me! Good choice of camera and lens, enjoy your photography, all the best. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 Hi bybrett, Take a look here Leica M-E discontinued ?!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
thrid Posted March 25, 2013 Share #42 Posted March 25, 2013 Maybe there will be an M-E with the sensor from the 240 (no video etc same features / body as current M-E) It would make sense for Leica to go this route and consolidate components, as they would get a better rate for a larger order of sensors. Leica's are expensive. Most people who can afford an M-E, can afford a 240. My guess is that M-E sales have dropped off a cliff, now that the 240 is shipping. Purchasing sensors in small quantities to keep the M-E going is a very expensive undertaking. The MM is a specialized low volume product, but it would also make sense for Leica to develop a monochrome version of the 240 sensor. Again, this would just be sound economic thinking. If they only need 500 - 1000 sensors a year for the MM, they are much better off with a variant of the 240 unit. Ordering a run of a few hundred of the old CCD sensors could be economically not viable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted March 25, 2013 Share #43 Posted March 25, 2013 Live view and video is something the M can do by virtue of its other features, so disabling these options would do nothing to cut costs. True. But they would also leave out the EVF port and maybe some of the other ergonomic changes like the thumbwheel. Maybe the RAM buffer is smaller or it doesn't use the LEDs in the viewfinder etc. Price is also determined in a large part by marketing. You are of course correct that the M240 can do video as a byproduct of its sensor, but if the video / LV features are disabled then that would differentiate a M-E mk II from the 240 and consequently lower its price. Here is an example. Two years ago Sony shipped one of their digital cinema cameras in two flavors, at to very different price points. $12,000 vs $16,000. There was the standard Sony PMW-F3 ($12,000) that did not support slog 4:4:4 recording (uncompressed footage) and a PMW-F3 ($16,000) that did output uncompressed slog 4:4:4. In terms of hardware and appearance these two cameras were 100% identical in every way, except that one had features disabled via firmware and they were priced more than $4000 apart. You could purchase an slog upgrade for $4000 that unlocked that feature from your base level camera. So, there is nothing to stop Leica from creating a 'stripped' down M-E mk II based on 240 hardware that has the video features disabled and selling it as a entry level camera. More than anything that's a marketing decision. IMO the days of the current M-E are numbered and we will see a change sooner rather than later. It may still be a nice camera, but in terms of marketing it will become more difficult to sell, especially in cultures where Leicas are bought as status symbols and where anything but the most modern model is considered second best. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted March 25, 2013 Share #44 Posted March 25, 2013 The decision to discontinue was made last November... Stephens Premier - M-E plus 50mm Summarit £4500 - out of stock last weekRed Dot Cameras - M-E plus £300 off a new lens - deal now finished Richard Caplan - M-E plus lens plus free 8x20 binos - deal now finished Leica Mayfair - M-E - out of stock last week This is not support for your statement that M-E production was stopped last November. —Mitch/Potomac, MD Lanka Footsteps [M-Monochrom/Sri Lanka] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tanks Posted March 25, 2013 Share #45 Posted March 25, 2013 ...So, there is nothing to stop Leica from creating a 'stripped' down M-E mk II based on 240 hardware that has the video features disabled and selling it as a entry level camera. ... It would have to depend on the features that are disabled. Right now M-E is 30% less than the M, and a lot more than 30% less in features. I'd wager that if they disabled just the video it would cannibalize the M sales. They'd have to gut the M quite a bit in order for people to pay a premium for M over M-lite. Then, M-lite might not be so attractive to the market. My view is that the M-E is a stop gap product released to prevent the Osborne syndrome. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted March 25, 2013 Share #46 Posted March 25, 2013 Hello Everybody, IF the M220 has been discontinued it MIGHT be because of something no one has mentioned: It MAY be because: Leica is a Company that built its reputation to a great extent on the servicability & reliability of its equipment. They don't want a repeat of what happened with the M8 related to the long term availability of some of the components which were provided by outside suppliers (ie: sensors & related electronics). PERHAPS Leica might want to establish a definitive end-date for a specific generation of components & do so while those components are still available in sufficient quantities to appropriately stockpile adequare reserves for future use so that what happened with the M8 does not happen again. Just a thought about a possibility based on a RUMOR. Best Regards, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bybrett Posted March 25, 2013 Share #47 Posted March 25, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) This is not support for your statement that M-E production was stopped last November. —Mitch/Potomac, MD Lanka Footsteps [M-Monochrom/Sri Lanka] You are correct in that the information supplied was in answer to the question by James about the stock availability. For the record my statement was "The decision to discontinue was made last November". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted March 25, 2013 Share #48 Posted March 25, 2013 Live view and video is something the M can do by virtue of its other features, so disabling these options would do nothing to cut costs. I didn't say anything about cutting costs. This is about a more traditional rangefinder (no EVF, etc), but with better build, faster processing, weather sealing, quieter shutter, 2m frame lines, etc....essentially the missing M10, but with CMOS. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D&A Posted March 25, 2013 Share #49 Posted March 25, 2013 IIRC, a number of dealers were offering as a sales incentive for the M-E to buy back the M-E with the purchase of an M. Now that the M is being delivered, there are undoubtedly some of those M-Es coming to market used. Wow, really? Here in the States? Not doubting you or this info, but I haven't heard from anyone else here (in the States) of dealers making this offer. I'd be curious how many dealers are offering this and if so, how much they are repurchasing the M-E for or offering to put it towards the new M. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Dave (D&A) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan c. davis Posted March 25, 2013 Share #50 Posted March 25, 2013 After two years of saving and waiting I just made a deposit for the M-E and a 50 Summilux. I will go and pick up the package on Monday Lots of training ahead of me! Lucky bastard!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdriceman Posted March 25, 2013 Share #51 Posted March 25, 2013 Wow, really? Here in the States? Not doubting you or this info, but I haven't heard from anyone else here (in the States) of dealers making this offer. I'd be curious how many dealers are offering this and if so, how much they are repurchasing the M-E for or offering to put it towards the new M. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Dave (D&A) Dale (Fla.) had this offer through January. The offer was a buy back at $700 or $750 less than the original purchase price. It was not for me, but I'm sure some who perhaps didn't already have a digital M might have done it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
efreed2754 Posted March 25, 2013 Share #52 Posted March 25, 2013 The ME has to be an interim stop gap camera. Once the new M was announced, sales of the M9(P) would slow down and too few would pay full price given the M's cost. Leica's solution (IMHO) was to reduce the price of the M9(P) or develop a replacement. If they kept the original M9(P) they would have had to lower the price to make sales but would alienate the current owners. By developing the ME with fewer gizmos, they could lower the price and the optics would seem better to prospective buyers and current M9 owners. Now that the new M is out, the demand and resources will go to it, not old digital stock. The ME served its purpose and now it's time to embrace the new king. And once enough new M stock is out and assuming it gets good reviews, all this hand wringing will cease and we can focus on optimizing the new M! Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted March 25, 2013 Share #53 Posted March 25, 2013 I didn't say anything about cutting costs. So it would be an artifically crippled camera that costs the same as the more capable model. Not likely to happen I would say (hopefully). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik Posted March 25, 2013 Share #54 Posted March 25, 2013 So it would be an artifically crippled camera that costs the same as the more capable model. Not likely to happen I would say (hopefully). That has happened before. Look at Leica R4 vs. R4s Ulrik Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted March 25, 2013 Share #55 Posted March 25, 2013 So it would be an artifically crippled camera that costs the same as the more capable model. Not likely to happen I would say (hopefully). That's because you are probably looking at it from a more technical perspective – one that welcomes additional features and gizmos. Some of us might simply prefer a cleaner version of the M without the extra ports, buttons and microphone holes that go with the features (EVF, video, etc.) that are of no interest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted March 25, 2013 Share #56 Posted March 25, 2013 Anyway, IF Leica have discontinued the M-E, why are they afraid to say so? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted March 25, 2013 Share #57 Posted March 25, 2013 That's because you are probably looking at it from a more technical perspective – one that welcomes additional features and gizmos. Some of us might simply prefer a cleaner version of the M without the extra ports, buttons and microphone holes that go with the features (EVF, video, etc.) that are of no interest. There should be an additional "Exactly What He Said" button under posts like this. 'Thanks' is just not enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 25, 2013 Share #58 Posted March 25, 2013 Anyway, IF Leica have discontinued the M-E, why are they afraid to say so? Because they haven't, perhaps? There are still plenty in the shops. Having said that I would be surprised if the ME were not a short production-run camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iedei Posted March 25, 2013 Share #59 Posted March 25, 2013 Anyway, IF Leica have discontinued the M-E, why are they afraid to say so? well even if they did discontinue production....they wouldn't want to announce it being discontinued until the stocks are depleted----so that people buying it won't be discouraged from buying one. this happens all the time in other products; it's nothing new. there are lots of unsold M-Es around at the moment. I'm sure it will take months to clear those up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick_S Posted March 25, 2013 Share #60 Posted March 25, 2013 Perhaps, given the success of the Monochrom experiment they can get a better return on modified M9 designs by building the Monochrom camera and charging the premium. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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