amusong Posted March 22, 2013 Share #1 Posted March 22, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi, I have recently put a roll of HP4 through my M4, sent it to a commercial lab, and got back some strange images. Frames 1 to 13 are all faulty in some way, but then the frames from the remainder of the roll all appear to be reasonable. As well as some streaking and general blotchiness in some of the affected frames, it can be seen on the negative strip itself that the frame numbers and other areas outside the exposure frame are also darkened (around the affected portion of the film). There are several possibilities that occur to me: 1. Poor processing (agitation issues?) 2. Somehow that the film was hit with some light during loading or unloading 3. Faulty film 4. Possible double exposures in one ore two places? I have attached some sample images - they are scans by the lab at the time the roll was processed. The attachments are frames 5 through to 13 on the roll in the exact same sequence as they are on the roll (although numbered 1 to 7 here). I should stress that frames 14 onwards, to the end of the roll, look reasonably OK. Does anyone have any thoughts to offer as to what could be going wrong? Although long ago (decades) I used to do my own developing and printing, I am pretty new to the M4 and have only made a recent reversion to film, so have mostly lost my previous film processing knowledge. I am the same chap who has been talking about a complete sensor failure on my M9 early in the month over in the M9 section..... It's all a bit disheartening so any assistance would be appreciated. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/201097-m4-film-issues/?do=findComment&comment=2278989'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 22, 2013 Posted March 22, 2013 Hi amusong, Take a look here M4 film issues?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
gsgary Posted March 22, 2013 Share #2 Posted March 22, 2013 Not sure what you expected HP4 was discontinued in 1989, i have had good result form film old than this but do you know how it has been stored Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
amusong Posted March 22, 2013 Author Share #3 Posted March 22, 2013 Thanks gsgary, my mistake. I thought it was HP5 but on the negative strip it says Delta 400 so I guess that is what it is. It was purchased late last year so is not that old, mostly stored in refrigerator until used. I should also mention that some early parts of the negative strip are black from top to bottom, including right over the sprocket holes, completely obliterating the film information. The second half of the film from frame 14 onwards is entirely normal though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted March 22, 2013 Share #4 Posted March 22, 2013 Absolutely erred processing: - over-agitated in an over-the-top active developer. The processing company just, plain screwed up. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted March 22, 2013 Share #5 Posted March 22, 2013 Yes definitely FUBAR processing, but what about the double exposures? Look at the negs, do you see double exposed frames? Or have the Lad mastered FUBAR scanning too? I would run a new roll of film through the camera and take it to another lab to determine if there are any faults with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted March 23, 2013 Share #6 Posted March 23, 2013 I would do as James suggests, run another roll through and take it to another lab. There are so many clear processing faults and you need to get those out of the equation before you can even start to worry about what may be wrong with the camera (if anything). But it looks like it has been processed by a complete novice or an accident has happened which the lab hasn't admitted to. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth3kpl Posted March 23, 2013 Share #7 Posted March 23, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) On the bright side, I love #3 Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted March 23, 2013 Share #8 Posted March 23, 2013 The birds photo is also a nice accident, very Hitchcock. Looks like you got the same processor as Capa Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsgary Posted March 23, 2013 Share #9 Posted March 23, 2013 Could it have been run through C41 ? i know what C41 film looks like developed in B+W chemicals but never seen it the other way Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
amusong Posted March 23, 2013 Author Share #10 Posted March 23, 2013 Thanks for your kind words earlygallery and Stealth3kpl....now that you mention it, the birds do look kinda spooky with a sepulchral light from the heavenly sprocket holes above! I think that the finger has been put on the likely culprit..... processing is probably it. I have a feeling the possible double exposures could possibly relate to incorrect registration of the frames as the boundaries of the frames are burnt out on the negs in some places. By the way the "flower shapes" across two adjacent frames must be a clear artefact of something wrong - there was nothing like that around when I took the photo. The lab in Brisbane is supposedly reputable but this is the second time something has gone wrong with them so I will try a few rolls of a C41 film which I can get processed locally and see what happens. I am very happy with my M9 (when it is working) but enjoy the discipline and "slow down and think more" factor that film engenders so will persist with the M4 for the moment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
amusong Posted March 23, 2013 Author Share #11 Posted March 23, 2013 I have also taken a scan of the first few negative strips. The scan was not a "light through the neg" but a reflected light scan, so is a bit dark. You can clearly see the out of frame blackness. You can also see non-photo detail between some frames, swirls etc. Looks like processing was clearly a key issue. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/201097-m4-film-issues/?do=findComment&comment=2280291'>More sharing options...
AkiA Posted March 24, 2013 Share #12 Posted March 24, 2013 Hmm, seeing your actual negs, I have to say this looks just like the roll I(s) I messed up by mistakingly opening the back mid-roll. Also looks like somehow it got rewound partly and re-exposed. If the lab somehow did this, I'd be a little surprised, but I've done worse with my own rolls during processing. One odd thing is how the last two frames, 11 and 12 are only half hit by light though. Not sure how you get that. Other frames look pretty good, I'd vote for just shooting a couple of more rolls and see. Development doesn't seem too bad from the properly exposed/developed portion of the scan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted March 24, 2013 Share #13 Posted March 24, 2013 Hello amusong & Akia, Welcome to the forum both. amusong, You might try: 1. Excercise your camera with no film inside before testing with film. Make sure you wind & release the shutter at least 10 times at each setting. Skip around as you change speeds. Do NOT go: 125, 250, 500. 2. Test each shutter speed using SLIDE FILM. Not negative film. It is harder to tell what problems you may have with negative film. Looking at prints adds a number of variables that are unknown. Best Regards, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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